Sooo why is it that ds1 can wander around saying "Mummy, mummy, mummy" when humming along to himself......

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

..... but when I say "Do this: Mummy" he says 'ayang".

I do know why- one of the joys of verbal dyspraxia (difficuties in producing something on demand) and perhaps some weird auditory processing thing but he says 'Mummy" perfectly- completely perfectly all the time and he doesn't even know he's doing it. People keep saying "wow isn't that great he said Mummy perfectly". Then I have to say 'er no he didn't- he doesn't actually know he's saying Mummy - it's just babble".

Sorry that's rather a pointless post, but it's a bit weird. To hear him saying it perfectly, but him having no idea he's saying it. Then when he wants to it's gobbledigook. So he doesn't even know he can say it

I can see what you are getting at - what you are describing is like a more extreme version of delayed echolalia in a non-verbal/barely verbal child. i.e. something makes sense but isn't said deliberately. I wonder whether delayed echolalia and singing come from the same area of the brain - which isn't the same as the area for communicative speech.

Hmm - I'm not sure its echolalia- I think it's just sounds that he plays with. He's never been quiet (he's either repeating sounds or humming) but tends to repeat the same sounds over and over. He's just recently switched to Mummy (still does over sounds as well) and sing songs his way round the house.

His other favourite sound at the moment (this one has been around for about 6 months) is nin-nong-nong - but said very nasally with what sounds like a foreign accent. I think the Mummy is just complete coincidence. I suppose it's quite an easy sound to produce. Ma-mee. Ma-mee,

over? other sounds

I suppose I am seeing delayed echolalia as being a stream of sounds from a song/telly program rather than a communicative utterance.

Oh I know what you mean. But I don't think this is copied. I think it's just generated from within - he's being doing the various sounds thing forever- for years before he could imitate anything at all. And at that stage nothing in the environment (except people weirdly) really had any meaning for him at all.

Doing this typing programme with him I am rediscovering how much of language is totally and utterly meaningless to him. It's been quite a shock. If he could learn something/anything other than nouns I think it would make a fundamental difference (as learning to imitate at 7 did).

I suppose that Mummy is one word we all desperately want them to say- especially when a child is language delayed/disordered and it's either weird or heartbreaking - I cant work out which- to have him saying the word so perfectly (he says nothing perfectly- nothing else at all) when its just musical sing song that perhaps a 6 month old baby would do (you know when they start trying out their range of sounds).

He does have echolalia - but it gets translated into his language.

So 'aye an an ee' ('I'll get the keys' when he wanted the car boot open) springs to mind.

I think these sounds are almost unconcious. (Another thing I have to try and do with the typing is stop him humming and it's really hard - because he doesn't seem that aware he's doing it).

If you sang "mummy" to him would that help him to copy?

Nope unfortunately . Weirdly he can't. If he does it conciously it;s ayan or nanig or whatever it is he says. If I repeat it as soon as he's said it and ask him to say it again he doesn't seem to realise I'm copying him, or that he's even said Mummy. I really don't think he knows he says it.

DS1 has better pronunciation with words he has recently learned but words he has known for a while are the worst. He still calls a windmill (from teletubbies) an 'undill' whereas he has started mentioning the town where granny lives and he can say it fairly well - although it is a name that challenges anyone's pronunication.

ds is the same he is constantly mumbling to himself and comes out with mama and dada and others It really bugs me when people insist that he is saying things when he hasnt said it in context and he wanders around saying these things all the time. Our portage worker keeps making little notes of all the words he is supposedly saying. Even his little babbling they try to turn into something its not- oh ba dah is apparently over there etc. He has on a rare occasion repeated a word but he will not do it again.

"It really bugs me when people insist that he is saying things when he hasnt"

Aha- I'm with you there. And you feel like you're being negative - but you're not - just realistic. Well at least that's how I feel!