to vaccinate or not to vaccinate

[Graciefer]

my ds is severely low functioning and has never regressed as he never learned any toileting/launguage skills. It was clear that he was different from very very early on my dh even thinks as early as the first 24 hours as he didnt cry at all or feed during this time and no reaction at all when the paed checked his hips, infact the paed noticed it and did the hips again and still no reaction. Looking back it is very apparent at around 9-12 months but we were first time parents and kind of in denial and listening to all the it will come stuff.

I am now expecting my second child in 10 days and am in a quandry about vacinations ds1 had vitamin K orally and all his jabs but i cant help but think that all those chemicals in such a young body can't help. I have avoided tuna this time round as i did eat an awful lot last time (maybe 10 tins a week) as i craved it. We also had genetic tests done to see if they could explain why but no sucsess, showed nothing. Not that it mattered as we still would have gone ahead and were actually pregnant after 18 months of trying when we got the results.
He also has all of the gut and gastro problems that gess speaks of and tests show no allergies but an intolerance and he does respond to dairy free diet.

pretty confused where we go from here, as mentioned we know our son did'nt regress but since being in the world of special needs/autism we have read alot of stuff regarding reasons etc and thought that posting and disscussing it here would help for us to hear other people's decisions regarding what they did or would do and your opinions when it comes to jabs?? we are going to go with the oral vitamin K just undecided about all the others.

Who's your paed? Dr C will have nothing to do with jabs causing autism so no point asking him, Dr J has told someone I know that he thinks MMR triggered her child' particular case, he may be more open minded.

There is a very god book availble about vaccinations now. it's on my website- scroll down to the bottom by Dr Richard Halvorsen. He's an NHS GP.

IN your situation I would definitely avoid thimerosal- pretty easy these days- you just need to watch flu jabs and anti D if you're breast feeding. I'd breast feed if you can (I couldn;t with ds3, but still would have been better if I could have). I'd avoid antibiotics. TBH I'd be less worried about the jabs (unless you have a big family history of autoimmunity that you haven't mentioned) than things like antibs- which of course can be lifesavers but should (imo) be used as such and not routinely. Having said that I was gfiven iv antibs after ds3 was born.

Jab wise remember you can delay them. You don't have to give them so close together either. D and T are pretty safe, pertussis is not great if you have a tendency to seizures. The new form of whooing cough disease that is around dooesn;t seem to be as bad as the old form (ds2 had it). polio pretty safe vaccine. hib- hmmm not a very effective vaccine esp in under 2's. although that's the age group that's at particular risk of the disease. If you're breast feeding and your baby doesn;t attend day care their risk of catching hib goes down. Men -C - numbers affected were low before vaccine introduction- even jab em johnny Peltola in Finland wasn't sure the numbers warranted introuduction of the vaccine, but obviuosly if caught very serious. Pneumonococcus - very hideous disease, but rare(ish) and tends to stirke those who are particularly vulnerable. Hideousness of diease not to be underestimated however.

Bet that has you even more confused. Choice is even more limited as it comes packaged as the 5 in 1 these days. For example I would like ds2 to have a diptheria and tetanus jab, I don;t want the rest, he's had whooping cough disease and he's not at the dangerous age for men C, hib, whoonog cough, no polio in the UK, but its very difficult to get just those 2.

I;d recommend a) reading the Halvorsen book- he goes into lots of detail, he does end up recommending most (but not all) the standard jabs (for a 'standard' child). I am going to see him for a consultation about ds2 and ds3 so I can tell you what he says when we have that. b)don;t be afraid to delay/space out. They fiddle with the programme all the time; it used to be far more spaced out that it was (over the course of the 1st year rather than 2, 3 and 4 months) and tbh I think a lot of the problems come from compression of the timescale- particularly with respect to autism and heavy metals.

Just to add, we kept ds2 gluten free until 2, and ds3 is still and will remain gluten free (he's 2 and a half and has the same gut issues as ds1). We also avoid friesian cows milk with ds3 (goats fine, guernsey cows fine). TBH for ds3 I think the biggest factor in his 'good' outcome despite the definite (in my mind) close shave has been the diet. I'm not sure whether you can still get goats formula, and obviously breast is best if you can, but when we switched ds3 from cows formula to goats it was like the lights went on straight away. He was gluten free from the beginning.

Gess, I have seen you mentioning about wanting to have the Tetanus jab... this may sound stupid, and perhaps irrelevant in this country, but... is there any possibility to get it in a clinic that do jabs for "exotic" trips? (last time I had it, was that way)

Gess, would there be a good time to reintroduce those foods to a child with the characteristics of DS3, or is it something likely to have an impact at any point in their lives?

It's being a long time since I had it but I don't remember gasping at the price as I did at the price of the singles. Considering I was a student then, it may not be expensive.

Kerry, I was in Instambul last year and was positively surprised at the city, it was much more modern that I was expecting.

I suspect that going for a tournament will keep you to the nicest areas of the place. I believe that unless you are getting into deprived/remote areas those vaccines may not be exactly necessary. I have had the malaria profilaxis and the tetanus one but I doubt you and your child would find a place as poor and problematic as the one I visited when I needed those vaccines. It was a place whose deprivation would have been shocking even to the nationals of the same country.

Malaria is worse in areas with lots of slow moving waters (or not moving at all huge puddles). You will find those in the middle of nowhere or in deprived areas. BTW I didn't get any special jab for the trip to Turkey. It would have been totally unnecessary. If I had been visiting far away village near to the Kurdistan maybe, but for a major city where I'm going to keep myself to the most popular and safe areas... not needed (and further to it, you really have enough worries about singles/mmr you don't need to worry about yet another vaccine ).

I don't think Antalya is that remote Kerry, It's a popular touristic destination.

isabel- the problem is there isn't (AFAIK) one that's suitable for the under 10's, only the 5 in 1, and there's no way either ds2 or ds3 are having that. That's why I want to see Richard Halvorsen to talk it through as he'll know what the options are.

Not sure about the food, he's still ripe age for regression so not yet. As he gets older autism will become less of a risk but not sure about other things such as type 1 diabetes which has also been linked to leaky gut and gluten and is in close relatives.

I was thinking about that when I was writting the post. But wonder about the possibility of finding it in a place where Tetanus is not yet included as a part of regular children vaccination (although it doubt that place still exists!).
However I have found that in Argentina they have something called the Double that covers Difteria and Tetanus. It is a booster to be aplied at 16 unless there is no evidence the child has had them previously, in such case, according with what I have read the child can have it earlier than that.

Regarding the leaky gut, at what age would you expect the risk of regression to diminish? I'm a bit concerned about DS.