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Original poster

if the LA issued a final statement last week, can the LA issue a revised final statement next week??

61 replies

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 11:19

its Saturday so of course today I will get a response back from the LA!!!!

the LA been back to their barrister clearly and now say

' as a result of this I am now in a position to inform you that the LA will issue a revised statement ie final statement next week'

the finals statement is as the consent order states a holding statement. The LA intention was to take into account as part of the EHC assessment process the 3 indie reports (and other reports which may be gathered) which were submitted after the NIL.

The LA will now reference these reports in part 2 of the statement and annexe them to the same.'

so how can they now issue another statement (which ive already lodged an appeal against) and only mention the indie reports in part 2 but no mention in part 3

they say nothing wrong with the amount given in part 4 and school can give up to 15 hours or more if needs be.

they tehn say the ehc assessment will be completed by 1 may but don't answer the question that I asked namely - is that when the finalised plan will be issued or is that just the 'assessment' only

so now I have an appeal lodged against a statement which the LA will try to change next week - surely they cannot change a finalised statement cos they've realised they've cocked up on something - can they????

OP posts:

AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/02/2015 17:20

I would suggest you speak to IPSEA about this matter asap.

www.ipsea.org.uk

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 17:29

I contacted ipsea last weds and am still awaiting a response as they have had to pass it over to the legal team - im hoping they will contact me asap.

OP posts:

fairgame · 21/02/2015 17:29

My LA did something similar. They sent me a letter confirming no amendments to be made to the statement even though i asked for amendments to parts 2,3 and 4. Then about 3 weeks later they sent out a new statement with an amendment to part 2!
My appeal still stood even after they sent out the crappy amendment. Let's be honest the new final statement will only be useless anyway so leave the appeal as it is.

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 17:32

I showed a friend the letter which came today and she thinks they are trying to say she is getting the 11 hours in the statement but then also 15 hours of delegated funding on top which may be what the La are thinking but there is no guarantee of the 15 hours (I know for a fact school simply don't have the money to fund it) so surely if that's right it should be 26 hours as you wouldn't issue a statement say with 25 hours and then get the 15 hours on top - I know im right but my friend has made me doubt myself - I need to get a grip!

OP posts:

fairgame · 21/02/2015 17:37

No it still needs to say 26 hours. DS's statement always said 27.5hrs pw. It specified 22.5hrs funded by the LA and then it also specified that 5 hours would be funded by school. This was the same in the 2 LA's that he has had his statement with. If it doesn't say what school will provide in the statement then how can it be enforced? If it's not written down then it might not happen.

AgnesDiPesto · 21/02/2015 18:02

Your appeal will still be good you just write to the tribunal and say despite them issuing another final you still wish to appeal and the appeal will cover the new statement too.

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 18:05

that's what I was saying to her fairgame - you know when you just have that moment of self doubt... but that's what the LA are trying to say in the letter as well - thought I had headed into the twilight zone for a second.

I don't understand how they will appendice 3 reports in part 2 now and yet not put any provision in part 3?? so do they accept the reports or not - who knows....... they are just making it up as they go along

OP posts:

Icimoi · 21/02/2015 18:07

Yes, they can issue a new statement, and Agnes is right about how you deal with it re SENDIST. It's also correct that it should specify 26 hours and not leave it as an assumption that ds will get the extra 15 hours through the school.

It's interesting that they say they will only reference the independent reports in part 2 but not part 3. Surely if they accept them for the purposes of part 2 then logically they should accept their recommendations for part 3? It could be worth firing off something off to them pointing that out.

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 18:21

they keep twittering about it being this 'holding' statement so my guess is that they think they can just add them to the current holding statement but not actually deal with them until they issue the EHCP.

the reality is that my dd is the one left holding on - we will have moved no further from when the NIL was issued in august until the EHCP would be issued in may - 9 months they want to suspend her in limbo despite a tribunal and 9 months with no support and all the times the gap between her peers gets wider and wider but hey - its only year 6 now

OP posts:

MeirEiaNoAlibie · 21/02/2015 21:22

I wouldn't hold your breath on getting a Plan.

There's no mention of NIL in the new sencop- but it wasn't obligatory to issue NIL in the old one either- was just a recommendation.

So they 'can' still issue a nil-type thing if they don't think an EHCP is needed. And it'd be just-about possible to try & get away with it

Imagine: "oh the new assessment process has shown us lots of strengths, the old SA was what sendist based their decision on, but it's all changed now, constant teacher plan-do-review is exactly what a complex dc like this will thrive on"

MeirEiaNoAlibie · 21/02/2015 21:26

Tell ipsea you need an answer quick.

Otherwise you'll miss your 'review or appeal' date for the shoddy decision. And this might well be seen as change of circumstances.

Even failing that, it was such a pigs ear of a decision, it might be subject to some 'error of law' ground.

Icimoi · 21/02/2015 21:48

Meir, they can't issue a statement and then shrug everything off by refusing to issue an EHCP: the LA has conceded he does need a statement, and have been ordered to issue one, albeit on a consent basis. It's been made very clear more than once that LAs aren't intended to use the legislation to get rid of statements; and it would be totally wrong to make bjkmummy go through an appeal against a refusal to issue an EHCP immediately after she's won an appeal against refusal to issue a statement. It would be a total waste of tribunal time, and indeed there's a case for saying it would in effect be contempt of court.

If you can't get an answer from IPSEA it could be worth asking a specialist lawyer.

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 21:49

i have also contacted a well known firm of solicitors as well and I expect they may well phone on Monday as well

OP posts:

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 21:59

if they don't issue the EHCP then we appeal the statement even if it was out of time so the fact the judge gave us that back up plan means it is possible the LA my not issue an EHCP although they say they are committed to the assessment - my concern is the 11 hours they have given her - that surely will be their get out clause - what more assessments can they do now? everything is up to date and they wont risk her being assessed again unless of course they manage to persuade say the NHS to write the reports their way but im sure any tribunal would see straight through that - they are now back tracking by issuing this second statement I guess due to the asd dx not being on the first one so if they are putting it on the second one then surely they must now accept the dx and all that brings but then who knows!!!

OP posts:

MeirEiaNoAlibie · 21/02/2015 22:09

Icimoi, I agree it's morally wrong, organisationally foolish and probably illegal to boot. But that doesn't necessarily mean the la won't try.

The fact they've 'consented' to a statement doesn't allow them to reduce existing provision, but it's still happening.

Is there scope for a 'cease to maintain' when a LA misuses an EHCP assessment to cancel a statement?

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 22:17

yes there is - if the LA cease to maintain the parent again has the right to appeal and the LA have to leave the current statement in place until the tribunal rules to stop the LA reducing so many peoples old statements through the transfer process. will be interesting to see how many people over the coming years are in that position and going to tribunal over cease to maintain

OP posts:

MeirEiaNoAlibie · 21/02/2015 22:25

bjk From the Tribunal date/ date of consent order to 1-5-15. Is that exactly 10 weeks?

Cos if so, that might be the standard timescales-
-skipping the 6w of deciding whether to assess,
-then the usual 10 week deadline on EHC assessment & planning time; ---then the 4 weeks to issue & finalise

Chart re who converts when

manishkmehta · 21/02/2015 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

bjkmummy · 21/02/2015 22:50

meir - the time line is just under 14 weeks so they are working on the 14 weeks timeline but so far they have used 4 weeks of the 10 weeks I guess up and so far we have had nothing from them to even start the conversion or any information etc so its going to be rushed unless they just take our reports and convert over to an EHCP and don't really do a further assessment which is fine by me but my concern is that until the 1st may my daughter sits there with just 11 hours of support, no OT SALT or specialist teaching which we are still paying for - I thought the LA would have given her more support in the 'holding' statement not the bare minimum and shes falling further and further behind whilst they faff around

OP posts:

senvet · 22/02/2015 00:39

bj if they issue another holding statement that is still rubbish then you can appeal that as well and ask for the two appeals to be coonsolidated

fair your statement should not have reference to the number of hours paid for by the school - that is between the LA and school, and not relevant to the statement. Everything in the statement is the LA's responsibility. If the HT suddenly empties the school's bank account and gambles it all away in Vegas, the LA still have to pay for dc's needs...

2boysnamedR · 22/02/2015 09:55

What a shambles. Can't you get hold of ed t directly and get him to kick some butt? Trying similar tactics myself otherwise I'm going to be playing games with my la for years.

Makes me want to march up to number ten actually and ram your statement up some mps arse

Original poster

bjkmummy · 22/02/2015 10:03

whats an ed t 2boys???

im stressed as hell- sat here wondering if I did the right thing lodging the appeal, this is turning into a legal minefield.

was looking at the ehcp timelines this morning - they now have 6 weeks to complete the assessment - so far not heard a peep about that.

but then if they do issue an ehcp on 1st may and I appealed on the 1st may and the tribunal were able to get it on the 1st may and lodged it the very same day and were able to fast track it for 12 weeks the hearing would be the 31st july !!! so no way if I play ball and wait for the EHCP would we get back to tribunal by the end of this academic year. my only hope would have been that the LA gave us everything we want including agreeing the school placement but given at this stage the statement is for 11 hours and all ot is in part 5/6 and no mention of anything else that's not likely is it!

OP posts:

KOKOagainandagain · 22/02/2015 11:37

Don't stress . You have done the right thing. DD needs to know secondary placement ASAP to allow sufficient preparation and transition planning. The timeline means you can't wait for the LA to issue a crap ECHP before you appeal contents.

After I submitted the reports from DK and MS and the statement was 'revised' this turned out to be one line added to the description in paragraph one of part 2 to say that he had a diagnosis from DK. That was it. No changes to part 3 or 4.

The LA will probably try to remove all mention of hours. There is a new paragraph that now refers to 2 adults in the room during teaching sessions to allow access to support as required.

2boysnamedR · 22/02/2015 11:51

Ed timpson. Can you get his email address at parliament and get him to explain his staffs actions? I'm doing similar with my mp. If that doesn't work I'm going to him next.

The system is broken. These people need holding to account. A la rep is exactly that - they represent the la. They act as the voice of the la. Therefore is the la as a whole that needs calling to account and they answer to government. Who make the rules they break.

How ironic

2boysnamedR · 22/02/2015 11:55

Hit them where it hurts. I have complained about the nhs and various staff got bollocked. One of them told me so. They never listened to me, ok do it didn't fix my issue but it stopped the on going rubbish.

I still think appealing is your only option. Your la want to play this game with you. Spice it up and raise the stakes I say.

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