FAO Peachy: Dyscalculia

[ingles2]

Hi Peachy...
Any tips or advice really gratefully received.
ds2 6.8 is as bright as a button, verbally really fantastic and has learnt to read well with synthetic phonics. His writing is pretty atrocious but his maths....
most numbers are back to front and mirror images
he's really struggling to count, usually when he hits the next 10, so 38,39,.......can't attempt backwards
I think he might just have counting in 10's, 5 is a problem but is really struggling with 2's.
School is useless, am moving him in Sept, new school immediately said dyscalculia, see your GP, who agrees.
Have been sending him to a tutor, who is lovely and plays lots of games with counting and number bonds. I'm struggling to help him as he gets really angry with me...What's so frustrating is that one day he'll seem to have it, and the next time he's completely forgotten it all
What can I do to make it easier for him?

oh forgot to mention school gave him a tablet pc to use in maths for a month. this seemed to help him, as in he was much happier. pc was on loan though and has gone back now. he's generally much better on the computer than writing anything.

Ingles - am not Peachy, but jumping in to say that I think part of the problem is that they can seem to get it, and possibly do hold it for that moment in their short term memory but it takes a lot to commit it to long term memory, then say it finally does pitch up there - it can be very difficult to ACT on that information, and do the sum or the counting in the way required.

It's as if they really just don't get the grammar of numbers. It's difficult to explain, but I understand it because I was certainly like that as a child. You just don't have any context to fit the numbers in, it all seems very arbitrary, you don't understand the patterns, or why 11 follows 10 and certainly you don't see that it ALWAYS does.

Put up loads of visual material. And use his verbal abilities as much as you can.

The thing I have found helps with ds2 is music. So we use loads of rhymes, because for some reason he can commit it to memory when it is set to music. Whether he can then USE those numbers is a different thing. He is 8 - we are doing the 3x table - and my god he can sing it like a lark now having listened to the CD. Though I doubt he could use it to solve any problems - but we can stress about that later.

Also - make it REAL. I mean give him real clues.

So if you're counting in tens - get out coins. Practise putting them in piles of tens, let him SEE that if he counts each coin individually he will get 20, that each column is ten, they are same height - and encourage him when counting to stop when he gets to ten, otherwise he'll probably just keep going!

Does this make sense? It's the abstract nature of it that is difficult I think.

At 36 i discovered that i have dyscalclia and what a revelation.
ive just passed GCSE maths at night class and i "got it" at that time, couldnt do it now though. First time in 30 years that i could do maths and numbers without that panic and dreaded feelings of my childhood.

i am so glad that this is now recognised as a problem and that help is out there for the children with this.

i was labelled "thick" put to the back of the class and forgoton about.
i cant tell you how wonderful it is that your children will never suffer from this fate with such supportive and open eyed parents behind them.

Thanks for that 100x....
funnily enough we tried a game with money at the weekend. he just could not get that a 10p is the same as 10 x 1p. The game from the tutor was to try and make small amounts using the least coins. so 25p = 2 x 10, 1 x 5. he got so mad. 25 p meant 25 x 1p, end of...
Visual clues defintely help but I haven't tried music. I'll give that a go. As you said though, I think he could memorize the facts but not apply them.
It's so frustrating...he's auditioning to be Puck in A MSND,...he was practising last night. took him 1/2 hour to learn 12 lines of shakespearian text fgs!
How does your school help? current school are only just recognising Dyslexia nevermind dyscalculia

He's 8 now and doesn't reverse numbers so much.

I don't know if he is dyscalculic - he could be, he is dyspraxic and has a huge difference between his right and left brain IQ. I think I would too - in fact I know I do. I saw an Ed Psych when I was about 10 because nobody could quite believe that I was SO thick as to simply not understand what was meant by a half of a half. I had the reading age of a 17 y-o but couldn't put a four piece jigsaw puzzle together, [preen] I NEVER got my maths o'level, and I was still taking it as an A grade A level student doing the subjects I could do and full of the idea of my intellectual abilities. DS1 is good at maths - he taught me how to add up big numbers fgs! They use a lot more 'strategies' now, which seem to help - like number grids and things. [looks dreamy, reads a book]

Sooo the thing is I'm not sure I know what the school are doing, because they tell me all about their methods with Magic Maths, and my brain starts to melt and I blink and say 'that sounds great'. I send in DH!

He frustrates his teacher because she says he gets it in the class - she often gets him to stand up and 'teach' and then he talks himself into understand it (that's clever isn't it?) but falls apart in a test. And I say 'he doesn't understand how to answer the questions' and then she blinks at me, and I blink at her and want to leave.

Oh god. How unhelpful is this? Sorry. Number lines help, repetition, don't assume too much. I reckon he probably has to understand the MEANING of value with those coins. The best way to do this is at a sweet shop ime.

Also you know, I really do use dh in this because I understand the problems but we both get bogged down in the ways we would approach the problems.

So I try to verbalize it, because that's the way I can make sense of it. So I say 'right, you are going to the toy shop with 50p. It's a very nice coin, and you holding it in your hand all the way there because you don't want to drop it'

and he nods.

Then I say 'they've got a boat for 25p and you think you like it, and then there's a ball for 10p'

and he says 'that's quite cheap isn't it for a ball?'

and I say 'yes, it is. They are on Special Offer'

And he says 'that's lucky'

Then I say 'yes, and um, how much was the boat again?'

and he says 'is it red?'

'Yes, with a green sail. Um ds2, I can't remember how much money you were taking to the shop can you?'

'No, but I didn't want to drop it'

'No you didn't'

At which point ds1 or DH says 'STEP AWAY FROM THE HOMEWORK 100X'

I think I might need to leave this thread now to more helpful less confused people!

Magic Maths...I like the sound of that! I was amazed he got the use of a pc. He was so happy about it and actually looking forward to going in. School have never discussed this with me and I'm fed up with talking to them. so how is using a pc meant to help do you think? just the constant repetition? because it hasn't helped in that he can now turn round and write a number or recall the facts without the pc.
The next thing I need to try and help him with is addition.
say 8 + 4, when he hasn't got enough fingers. how do get him to understand putting the 8 in his head to add 4? ifswim?

LOLOL 100x...
ds2 would be saying it's got a green sail, with blue stripes and a transformer on it
and I'd be saying (in my head of course! )
Never mind the BLOODY sail.... how much is it!!!!!!!!!!!??????
hows the dog btw?

Well the 8 plus 4 thing is Number Bonds. I know because ds1 told me. So firstly they learn the number bonds to ten, then I think in principle you know you have to carry the 2 over.

Oh god, I don't know! You need a proper person to explain it to you who knows how to represent it. I think rote learning is good to be honest, because there simply isn't the ability to make connections in a way you would. I like the transformer sail, me and ds2 are going to go and sail this boat with your ds we will all have a marvellous time and get ripped off at the ice cream van because we can't count the change, and we will probably lose all sense of time and be back late and you will be worried and you will say to me 'But I gave you £10 where's the change' and we will look sheepish and tell you all about the boat and how cool it was.

The dog is top. He's stopped mouthing so much, he doesn't do numbers either and we all adore him. He is quite thick too I think but SO AMIABLE and nice.

then I go off in a strop because you've all had far too good a time without me and I've sat at home with the dinner getting ruined, worrying myself sick........

mines stupid as well...the dog that is.

Try 'Number Shark' program for PC really good and fun as well.

DS2 is dyspraxic and I think there is an overlap into Dyscalculia. He finds numbers a totally alien abstract form, couldn't count up to 20 until he was 8. Every problem needed something concrete (counters, beads, sticks etc) in order for him to solve it. He once asked why he needed to know how to add and I said how are you going to manage in shops etc. He told me, no problem he would use a credit card!

Now he is 13, still has no sense of time and never remembers to collect change from shops.

Got 30% in last maths exam and teacher couln't understand why cos he gets it in class. I couldn't make teacher see that the next day he would have forgotten it.