Any Gina mums here? DS won't take his 10.30 feed any longer...

[cfc]

We were waking him for this feed every night and it was working so well, but he has not been taking anything from me at this time.

We have started to wean as he is 6 months and he is doing well but I am struggling to get good breast feeds inside him, apart from the first one of the day at 7am and the one after his bath. During the day it's so stressful trying to feed him from the breast, I can't even go out any more as he's so distractible and has a screaming fit sometimes!

Anyway, that's another thread. My question here is did any of your babies give up their dream feed at 10.30 and if so, what did you do?

He's currently sleeping from 7 - 7 with one wakening at 3-ish where he takes a good feed which is fine, but I would prefer to get back to the status quo of feeding him at 10.30 and having a full night's sleep from that point.

So any Gina Ford routine followers have or had this problem?

TIA.

I made sure that it wasn't a dream feed and that dd1 was wide awake so that she would feed properly, that seemed to work well.... but I would counsel that it makes it really hard to know when to drop it adn we carried on for ages and ages cos we wanted to keep enjoying a good night's sleep. With dd 2 i never did the 10.30 feed, just went to bed myself at about 9pm and fed her when she woke (as she got older this was as little as I thought I could get away with). This way she dropped it herself much earlier than dd1 and then we had 7 to 7 from a much earlier age and still have it - she's 5 yo now! Good luck!

oh lordy. google gina ford and mumsnet if you wonder why you're not getting many answers

[scaredy cat]

lol

Neither of my dd's had a feed at 10.30 at night past 6 months, if you are waking him up perhaps he just doesn't want it then. For lots of babies the whole wake up and feed at 10/11 pm so they don't wake up again doesn't work and you just have to go with what they want. This is easier said than done when all you want is a good nights sleep.

Also babies do get distracted during feeding when they are out and about as there are more interesting things to look at. I have friends who have resorted to feeding in the dark during the day to stop their babies looking around.

Getting distractable at this age is v. normal. Feed when sleepy (before/after naps), in a quiet, darkened room, with something soft to hold and fiddle with. (Some babies pull hair, tweak nipples, yank on "nursing necklaces" or will bash with a hard toy.)

The 3am feed is entirely fair play during the 6 month growth spurt. Thank your lucky starts it's 3am instead of 3 times in the night.

"He's currently sleeping from 7 - 7 with one wakening at 3-ish where he takes a good feed which is fine, but I would prefer to get back to the status quo of feeding him at 10.30 and having a full night's sleep from that point. "

I was a Gina Ford follower as was another friend of mine. Her LO dropped her 10:00pm feed very early on doing 7-7, my LO had a 10:00pm feed until 14months and at your stage was still waking up another 1-2 times a night for a b/f (he only does 7pm-5am now at 15months and nothing Gina says can disuade him!). What that little story is suppose to demonstrate is whilst I believe a lot of GF stuff you also have to be guided a little by what your baby wants and needs as well. One 3am waking at 6months old in between 7pm-7am is pretty good going and instead of getting stressed during the day when actually he is getting the milk that he wants I would start, maybe just for a week, to go with the flow in regard to him b/feeding and see what happens.

Little sod eh? Fancy thinking he knows more about his needs and hunger than you

If your child is established 7-7, you can probably just drop this feed.

Not a Gina Ford follower, but sorry to hear you're finding this stressful as I have a similar reaction to my DS's napping patterns - these things can really get to dominate your lives can't they?

As others have said, you could be describing my DS in terms of distractability when feeding. The little monkey love even increased to 3 night feeds for a while, he was bfing so little during the day. I tried the feeding when he woke up from naps in a darkened room for a while. It was really restrictive, but it seemed to help a little. (perhaps more that at least it gave me a sense that I was trying everything I could?). Then after a few weeks I tried feeding him in a quiet room with nobody else around. It seemed to work okay. Now he's 8mo, he's bfing a lot less than he was, but solids seem to be up so I just trust that he's getting what he needs overall. I try to offer him bf every couple of hours during the day in hope that he will feed less at night, and mostly he's down to two feeds again (like your DS is now). He's also mostly taking only one side at each feed, where he used to take two.

To me, it sounds as if your DS is behaving very normaly for his age/stage. If you try all the usual tips of offering BF regularly during day, quiet/dark room, etc I'm sure you'll find he'll get there in the end.

I totally understand your desire for the 11-7 sleep pattern, as I would dream of that if I ever got enough unbroken sleep , but if he's done it before, I'm sure he'll get there again soon - he'll probably surprise you by just going 7-7 one night, fingers crossed for you. Meanwhile, I'd say try not to stress (easier said than done!) and go to bed a bit earlier while this phase lasts.

Good luck.

Thanks for your advice and I know well about the Gina/Mumsnet history and thought that bearing that in mind, people wouldn't let this thread turn into a libelous piece of bile...which it didn't! And that's why I asked for Gina mums in the title.

I am completely watching him for his signs and putting him to the breast whenever I think he might want it. He always takes a good feed first thing, but from then on in, who knows?! Even though we've followed Gina since he was 12 weeks or so I've always bf on demand. I honestly can't see there being any other way and when the HV asked me how I was feeding him "on demand" I sincerely asked her "is there any other way?" but she thought I was joking and just laughed. I still don't know the answer. I think I might be more of a Gina nap time follower as opposed to feeding - I've always simply fed him when he was hungry.

I know we're lucky to have just the one night waking and as we're so close in rooms I can hear him shuffling about before he cries so I never have to deal with a distressed baby which helps. Also my hubby also gets the sleep he sorely needs for his job.

As for day feeds, I too have resorted to getting home and feeding in his nursing chair in his room in a darkened state.

I was worried I suppose that the solids were causing him to wean off the milk as opposed to me simply weaning him onto his solids one bit at a time....but I will just continue to follow his lead. Again, is there any other way?!

Thanks again for all advice, sorely needed...hard work this, I'd just got bf sorted and now I have to feed him solids?!

I did the same as you. In the day did GF nap times (ish) but fed on demand. At night i used to put them down at 7 and then just fed when they wanted it...never did the dream feed thing. Mine eventually just went longer and longer at night until they were slweeping through.

Therefore i would say just forget the dream feed and feed him when he wakes and eventually he will drop that feed when he is ready.

at cfc - as you say, I've not found any other way either!

"hard work this, I'd just got bf sorted and now I have to feed him solids"

My thoughts exactly! It is such a steep learning curve. But it sounds like you are doing all the best things you can, so just try to keep at it, and as everybody keeps telling me, this too will pass.

Hi cfc,

Perhaps if you posted how much solids and milk your baby is taking, as it is possible you are not getting the balance right?

GF does say that many babies aged six months may still need a feed in the night until solids are well established. The fact you are getting only up once in the night sounds very good to me. But I understand that the screaming fits needs to be sorted out, do post your details.

Ok thanks!

He has a milk feed at 7 ish, following one at about 3am that morning.

Then at 8.30ish he has baby porridge and freshly pureed fruit in the morning. Perhaps one tblspn porridge and 3 fruit - level, not heaped.

For lunch at 12ish he has vegetables - I pre-freeze them and he has perhaps 4 ice cubes, but he seldom finishes this. He then has a petit filous because he loves it so much! If we have any fruit left over from the morning I bung that in too.

Throughout the day I put him to the breast whenever he's bitching but I can seldom get him to sit there and take a feed. I hark for the days when I could actually watch a full episode of Sex and the City whilst he was feeding, so easy!

Then for dinner at about 5.30 he has again the veg perhaps with some rice, let's say 4 cubes veg and one heaped tblspn baby rice. He doesn't have a pudding at this meal!

He has naked time for an hour with his daddy and then a bath and bed at 7. He usually takes a great feed at this time.

Last night actually he woke at 10 for a feed and took a good one, then again at about 3.30am if I remember correctly. I've had the lurgy so am woolly headed.

So how does that sound? TIA.

"naked time for an hour with his daddy" what's this? [nosy emoticon]

I suppose that sounds a bit but basically when hubby comes home and I've finished baby's dinner etc he takes baby upstairs and gets him stripped off. My mum was a nurse and is a great believer in babies' bums getting some air for at least half hour a day to prevent nappy rash.

So they just play on a towel in baby's room.

Then depending on who is getting in the bath with him we do the naked to the bath walk! So cute watching him stomp his way to the bathroom!

Silly I know, but he's never had a sore bum. Not even with all the teething and dribble etc.

Aww, that does sound lovely. DS rarely gets a sore bum, but sometimes with teething or if he's kept quiet about a nappy. I like the sound of your bedtime routine - how long does your DS take to have his feed? Our routine starts at 6.15 with a bath, then can take anything up to an hour for him just to feed and be in bed (7.30ish). He snuggles in and gets very sleepy, so lazy slow sucking. But at least I get to sit down .

Well I'm usually the one in the bath with him as I hate the getting him dried, nappied and dressed part!

We get into the bath about 6.15 and stay in there for about 20-25 mins, depending on his signs of tiredness. Then hubby takes him and does all the bits I don't like and I soak in hot water for a little while, literally 5 mins if I'm lucky. Then I get out, hubby passes him to me and I feed him in my towel.

He is such an efficient feeder, always has been. He's always been a great weight which has allayed any fears I had about him not taking enough with the mega short feeds he has. He will feed for approx 10 mins and I'll put him straight down into his grobag and blanket.

He's so used to this routine now, it's been a lifesaver for us. We get all evening together. The baby is always in bed for 7. Always. He's so good at it, I wonder if I wasn't following GF would he just slip into it anyway?!

cfc - yes to your last comment, gina and many others have got very rich from telling us what our babies will probably do naturally anyway.

however i have nothing against using these books and guides for the first babies especially as it's good to have some help and guidance when you feel so out of control!

I can't help agreeing with those who say perhaps you should let your baby guide you a little now though. And don't be too rigid about things like bedtimes, it may come back to haunt you when you want to be a bit more flexible, for example on holiday. And if you have another child, forget it. In my experience routines just don't work the 2nd time round as you have the first child to consider.

hence dd1 is a strict routine gal and dd2 just goes with the flow...

Hi, I bf and followed GF with all 3 of mine (more roughly with DD2 and DS as harder to do strict routines with more little people around). Anyway, none of mine ever really got on with the 10.30 pm feeds and I gave up on it with all of them around 6 weeks and then their night time sleeping slowly extended through the night (all 3 slept 7 to 7 by 12 weeks - I was v lucky). My only advice on night times would be in respect of one thing you said.....

"we're so close in rooms I can hear him shuffling about before he cries so I never have to deal with a distressed baby which helps"

Although obviously no one would want to have a distressed howling baby on their hands I do think that an important factor in babies sleeping through the night is them learning to resettle themselves. I absolutely do not advocate leaving a baby to cry himself to sleep on his own but my policy on night wakes was ALWAYS to leave them for a couple of minutes before going in. You'd be surprised how often they dropped straight back off to sleep after a minute or two of fussing and crying. After the first 6 weeks or so I always then spent a minute or two trying to help them to resettle without feeding, which worked surprisingly often, although I would feed if that didn't work. So just a thought - maybe don't rush in immediately when you hear shuffling and stirring.

As to the daytime distractibility I would just go with the flow as others have said - he will take what he needs.

I did GF routine with my DTs and the slept through around 6.5 months. I had a similar problem that they did not want the 10.30p feed at around 4 months. That feed was pushed to 1a-2a and for a short time they would still wake up at 5a for a feed. If I tried to wake them up for a feed or do dream feed at 10.30p, they would only take 1-2oz at most and then wake up twice.

After a while they dropped the 5a feed and woke only once between 7-7 some where in the middle. 2-3 weeks later they dropped that but started their day 5.45a-6a. Now at 11 months they start their day at 6.30a/7a.

Just wanted to show you that a lot of different things can happen with any routine. I liked GF because I like routines. But had to modify to suit my/DTs need.