ds is driving me crazy at night, this is a bit long but need help.

[sooooooooexhausted]

i have done everything possible to get him to nap in the day and he goes to bed at 7 or so, but jesus chri* i am so f?*ing fed up with him awakening now , that i lost it last night.

previous night one hr to settle him, he is 8 1/2 mths, at 4am woke at 6, last night from 10.20pm to midnight practically, did c/c for 1hr 10, he was relentless in his crying, dh lifted him and cuddled him for 30mins and he fell asleep.

meanwhile i cried my eyes out in our bed.

my dd was never like this and c/c worked on her no problem quite quickly.

heres his routine
awake at 6 feeds, breakfast 7.30 or so
naps at 9 or so 40mins max (he wakes)
lunch
then a nap at 12.30 or 1 for 1hr 20 maybe 30.

thats it til bed.
he now sits up in the cot so thats a real pain for c/c, how do you get round that?
he manages to get his legs caught up in the sleep suit - going to get a grow bag but how do they work with a baby who can sit up and not get back down?

i am feeding him myself and maybe he just isnt getting enough milk?
he eats really well, about 4/6 tablespoons of dinner (inc his dessert amt)

so why is he persistent in wakening every 2/3hrs at night.

i am a regular but have to reflect my state of mind in nic name (half hearted emoticon)

(((Hi honey)))

As you ds acts and reacts differently from your dd perhaps alternative sleep strategies might be something to think about.

From what you have said... he reacted to cuddles not cc... so perhaps that works better for him. Have you ever tried co-sleeping... not necessarily in your bed but on a mattress the same height as your bed. You will be alot less tired if you can deal with him lying down.

Have you tried taking him for a walk with the pram later in the day to get him to sleep?

papillon he fights the cuddles for a good 5/7mins before he settles,and he wriggles alot.
i had him in the bed last night from 1am when he woke and feed him briefly (this i am really trying to stop and have but its easier) and then he slept til 5.50.

it amazes me that he is not tired himself after such bad sleep patterns?
on saturday we all went to see the ducks at 3pm i thought he ll have a little doze now, NO he stayed awake for the whole walk of 1hr 5mins.

very very cross emoticon

I agree with papillon that as your ds is reacting differently from your dd it is worth rethinking your strategies totally and coming up with a new plan. Personally I wouldn?t recommend co-sleeping unless you are in it for the long haul. We made this mistake with dd1 and didn?t manage to have a child free night until she was about 3 1/2 years - she got herself into a comfort routine that was nearly impossible to break.
You sound like you have all the strategies and skills,
just a matter of personalising this one to gain success for your little one. Keep at it, try to nap in the day when he sleeps to keep you going if possible.
Good luck

Re cudddles... Perhaps he is initally angry and upset so it just takes afew minutes to soothe him... baby paps is into cuddles and quite still... but some do like to wriggle... maybe its a boy thing... he sounds quite active so it probably his personality to be abit more highly strung.

Sounds like he slept well with you.. as long as you also slept well? Co-sleeping does not have to be a rod. But being closer at night to your child often does have the habit of prolonging night feeds. I feed dd at night until she was about 15 months. She did not take to food well until then really. But that said I also gave other forms of comfort apart from the breast at night so when we stopped it was total mayhem!

Has he always woken through the night - are you sure he's not teething??
My ds went through stages of multiple night wakings - but then for weeks on end only waking at 4am - I think thats the last wakening to go - but maybe not till about 11 mo.
My ds was also crap at day napping till about 10 or 11mo. Keep trying with him. Just make sure you get the sleepy signals right and aren't trying to get a non sleepy baby to go to sleep. Try babywhisperer.co.uk for the signs to look for.
I have to say I found it much easier to get ds to come into our bed when he woke in the night - it means you get much more sleep and can deal with other issues easier. Although he always went down to sleep on his own and didn't come through till wakenings after 2am - earlier ones were given milk in his cot. Plus he co slept a lot - but he's now 13mo and he sleeps on his own 7-6.30 - so no lasting probs on co sleeping.
Your ds sounds like mine and will be very independent and nosey - so he won't get into a comfort rut - he'll be too interested in doing his own thing.

I know sleep deprivation is hard. Please don't be so angry with yourself or your ds. I feel for you as my ds has never needed much sleep, and I need loads.

Just thinking about the Baby Whisperer when I read this, and her pick up, put down method, similar to controlled crying, you really need to read the book (library) re this, but it seems to really work, (saw it on discovery!) you go in and re settle child, then rather than leaving, you simply sit on floor next to bed, but facing away from child, so they don't get a reaction from them, each time they get up, you re settle them and sit back down, continue until they drop, do this the next night, but move further away from the bed, and keep doing until you get out of the door and down stairs (took 1 week on the programme) have a cushion to hug for yourself as well/cry/scream into! had a friend who has tried it with success, so hope this helps.

I wouldn't worry too much 8 mo is still v. young - it's amazing what diff you'll see over the next 4 or 5 months. Try and chill and take things as they come - I really stressed myself for a while - but once I gave into ds internal routine that he wanted - it was much easier.
It took me about 9 or 10 months to really get to know his sleepy signals and once I had that sussed - it was much easier.
Maybe try and get your ds down for the night a bit earlier?? start bath etc at 6 ish in bed for 6.30??

everyone thank you
i think you are all right he needs a different approach and probablythe pupd is the one, i did this with him at 4/5mths and it worked .

he has never slept longer than 4/5hrs at night TracyK , triceratops i will try not to be angry last night really flipped me, i was just so looking forward to conking out.

hes just up after 50mins sleep so i wil see how the day goes and not bother with c/c tonight just the lulling and as Frizbe says not looking at him becasue i think he closes his eyes and turns the head and then instantly opens them again to see if i am there or dh.

thanks all
hermykne

What I did was go to bed at 9.30 pm when ds was waking in the night - it made a diff to let dh deal with him and get 4 or 5 hours straight sleep. And I napped alongside ds during the day - sometimes even snuggled up with him in my bed and we both snoozed for an hour or so.
I found that if I stuffed ds full of milk/food, clean nappy and nice and snuggly warm - he would sleep longer than 45 mins. But if watch a baby (well mine anyway) - 45 mins on the button - they start to twitch a little. So anything untoward - eg cold, hunger etc will wake them fully. Rule out any probs and they should slip back into deep sleep. BUT it wasn't till about 10 mo that ds had decent long naps.

tracyk
my other stressing thing is we've booked a week away next week in a hotel and i am just sooo afraid it will all go haywire and so looking forward to the break.
i had visions of me and dh sitting down to dinner at 8.30 both kids asleep and ds might wake about 12 (as was his pattern) and i 'll be sipping nice wine and dd will not be distrubed by him.

Have you got the kids in an adjoining room? Baby listening?
I used to stress too if we were away overnight - I'd make dh sit in the dark with the tv turned really low! But looking back it all seems so neurotic - ds is still alive and well today and is very contented - it was me that was winding myself up about nothing really!
I'm glad that 99% of the time I ignored dh's huffs when I'd bring ds through to bed during the night - or ds and I would go through to spare room. I knew that there was nothing wrong with ds if he went straight back to sleep between us. If he kept crying for more than 30 mins - I gave him calpol and then a little tooth would appear a couple of days later.
But I'm sure that your ds is like mine and will take anything in his stride - so don't be worried about 'making a rod for your own back' - just do whatever it takes to get him to go to sleep/nap - he'll sort himself out in a couple of months.
Go ahead and get him a gro bag - it'll keep him snuggly warm too.

i think the grobag would help.
not sure of the room in hotel, its a family room.
just got dd who seems to sleep w/o any probs.

its terrible how u obsess and then it passes and hindsight is great!
ds is so laid back in the day bar at times for food! but generally content & happy.

thanks soooo much.

will change my name now and stop using soooo!

I don't know if theres a correleation - but dd's always seem to sleep better than ds's - but may just be a sweeping generalisation!
tbh - i wouldn't even consider cc until 1yo - unless you are sure they are taking the piss!
We stayed at a hotel a couple of weeks ago and managed to get a suite (well 2 rooms) - so ds cot was in a seperate room and was much easier. But i think it was just our luck when we checked in and managed to grab it!
Looking back over the past year - its amazing how you worry about things for months and then it passes and before you can say 'phew' - there's something else to worry about! Napping, sleeping at night, bf, weaning, MMR, colds etc. I'm sure I shall look back and say the first year was the easiest - once I hit the terrible twos' etc!

just been insipried , saw tracy hogg on discovery health, came accross it by accident , didnt kjnow she had a programme.

so i am on a new approach completely.

You should invest in tracy hoggs new book. full of very practical and doable advise!!!! I found her advise on establishing a routine very beneficial, working so far(fingers crossed) and her winding down approach woked a treat with my boy.....very simple advice but it works...i was mad that i did'nt realise it myself...but thats why her books are best sellers i guess.

also has a web site (similar to this one) www.babywhisperer.co.uk

I know exactly how you feel. DD is 11 months old and has never slept through the night. The longest stretch of sleep has been 6hrs from 8pm. Believe me I often get frustrated with DD at which point I tell DH to go and see her. Weve tried CC but she scream every night for 2hrs for a whole week and then we gave up. She doesnt go back to sleep with milk either and now we just bring her into bed. Not happy with that either as she wriggles so much and starts playing so we cant really sleep next to her. Im sorry I dont have any solutions but I need them too. Just wanted to say your not alone.

hi kbaby
so glad to hear theressomeone like me! but dont wish it on you either.
i just dont get it with my ds, i cant understand why he is like this, as i do all what the "experts" say (re naps and routine and calming blah de blah )and he still doesnt sleep
the c/c i cant hack with him as he is so loud at crying, even my mum thinks he is really loud.

i cant take him beside me as he just sits up and i know he'll fall off the bed.

its a nightmare, i felt so cross with him the other night that i actually said he is taking the goodness out of his baby hood, and next day i love him to bits and he is great. its so heart wrenching.

will keep in touch