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Sleep

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Original poster

lack of sleep is going to be the end of me

50 replies

BellaBear · 25/05/2008 14:44

(started to stop hijacking the other thread):

DS's sleep is getting owrse and worse and it is making me feel so so terrible. He rarely sleeps longer than 2 hours in a row at night, and it is more often 90 minutes. And that is asleep on me so I at best doze. I am finding hard to function., And the ADs give me insomnia.

He is bf so can't leave him at night.

He is 18 weeks - don't think is growth spurt as it has got worse and worse slowly for the last 8 weeks. Not a sudden new thing, iyswim.

OP posts:
Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 14:47

during the day, he is usually awake for 90 mins - 2 hours at a stretch and then lseeps for 45 minutes ish. SOmetimes less or more. SOmetimes he will wake, feed and then go back to sleep. He has 3-4 naps in a day. He usually goes 2- 2.5 hours between feeds. I put him on his front during the day and occasionally at night (ssssh don't tell GP)

He has reflux and is on ranitidine which is making a lot of difference. He throws up a lot, but it no longer seems to bother him, so I don't think the reflux is an issue anymore.

He is generally quite happy during teh day while awke. If he cries, it iis usually because he is tired.

OP posts:
lulumama · 25/05/2008 14:49

does he feed every time he wakes in the night?
do you use a sling during the day, to have him near you and more upright?

Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 14:52

yes. tried not and he just wakes up properly and cries a lot. don't think he is hungry, just comforting. OCcasionally I've got him to sleep by sucking on my finger.

the whole upright thing is no longer necessary. he's very happy during the day.In fact, daytimes he seems to be on a 'normal' 4 month old pattern of behaviour, slightly more frequent feeds than a lot of babies, but I am not at all worried. It's just the nights.

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lulumama · 25/05/2008 14:59

i think it is perfectly normal for breastfed co sleeping baby to want to feed in the night, and suck for comfort

the majority of 4 month old babies do need a feed or two in the night

if you feed when he wakes, he might well settle back quicker?

it sounds like a pretty normal, but exhausting pattern of behaviour

do you ever express so that your partner can give a bottle once in a while ?

Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 15:02

If it normal, do you have any idea how to 'encourage' him to sleep longer? We do most of the NCSS stuff, but I am scared by her son's behaviour at 12 months (exactly how DS's is now), the thought of that much lack of sleep makes me (actually) cry. I can't go back to work if I have this much sleep. Not that that is happening for six months.

Last time he tried a bottle he wouldn't take it. Plus, in teh time it takes to heat a bottle and feed him, I could have done it and I'll be awake either way.

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Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 15:02

a feed or two, but five? Six?

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lulumama · 25/05/2008 15:05

yep, depends how hungry ! maybe just try to go with the flow. when he wakes, feed him. his stomach is still quite small and it does need filling frequently. i know it is hard, but the quicker you feed him, the quicker he will go back to sleep, and he will gradually increase his ability to go longer between feeds... nothing else other than a feed will soothe a hungry baby.

Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 15:11

I'm not meaning to sound petulant honestly but why is it getting worse and worse? He feeds for a long time, and then goes less time than he does during the day. And I know about being distracted during the day, but that isn't what it feels like. He could do a five hour strech when he was much younger and with a smaller stomach.

OP posts:
Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 15:12

i am going with the flow and the result is crying (me not him) and an inability to function during the day.

OP posts:
scorpio1 · 25/05/2008 15:14

could it just be comfort, can you hear swallowing? does he have a dummy?

Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 15:16

last time we tried a dummy he wouldn't. it was a while now, could try again.

OP posts:
lulumama · 25/05/2008 15:18

i woudl try a dummy.. you don;t sound petulant, you sounds tired ! it is hard, and a lot harder than i think we often envisage. and society is not set up well to support tired new mums

scorpio1 · 25/05/2008 15:18

worth a shot it does get better, i promise. my 1st was terrible at sleeping, though was not bf. i got a friend to stay who fed him in the night for me, could you get one to sit with him in the day so you can sleep?

scorpio1 · 25/05/2008 15:19

agree lulu, we often get left alone with this terrible invisible pressure to appear coping and perfect at all times. we are 'wrong' if we have a meltdown sometimes. its not wrong, we are normal people who need a break sometimes!

Can you change ADs? some of them can make you feel terible.

Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 15:22

there aren't many ADs which you can take while bfing and sertraline gave me TERRIBLE diarrhoea. Find it very very hard to sleep during day - insomnia caused by ADs plus knowing it is only howver long till next feed.

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scorpio1 · 25/05/2008 15:24

oh i am on setraline, do you think that a gp visit may help to discuss side effects? i suppose you dont want/cant take sleeping pills either.

soz for typing am bfing

Original poster
BellaBear · 25/05/2008 18:45

i have reg gp visits, she seems unconcerned by side effects. apparently any good medicine has side effects

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Shitemum · 25/05/2008 20:44

bella - i dont know the NCSS, I used CC. I am of the 'firm but kind' school. (and also of the 'leave me in fecking peace for a while each day so i can eat chocolate and MN school').
It worked fairly quickly and painlessly with DD1. It sounds to me like he is snacking through the day and night but I can't remember what is 'normal' in a baby that age now.
You could bite the bullet and try CC. There are plenty of people on here who will support you through it, me included.

(Having said that although DD2s night sleep is now sorted she still refuses to nap most days, does amazingly well without naps actually and trying CC just results in a lot of screaming and barely controlled rage on my part. I am perservering tho...anyway she is starting nursery in September and then naps will be someone else's problem, haha)

IAteRosemaryConleyForBreakfast · 25/05/2008 20:56

Bella I just want you to know that if you're anything like me you feel totally ripped-off by the whole "it gets better after 3 months" crap that everyone tells you. IME it was the 5-6 month period when things (finally) started to improve, very gradually, and get easier. By your stage I was absolutely at the end of my tether (previous threads under ChubbyScotsBurd are testament to this) with exhaustion and frustration.

Frequent feeding can be for numerous reasons but at 18 weeks, honestly, if he wants fed then he needs to be fed. I think we need to find ways for you to cope with it rather than trying to change your DS, if that makes sense. Because apart from anything else, he'll change his whole routine anytime soon anyway, because it seems babies are really good at that [exasperated]

Can you work on feeding him and then laying him next to you (beside your pillow?) on his tummy? Whether you want to try this or not will depend on how you feel about SIDS guidelines etc. DS had really good tone and head control from an early age so I was OK with putting him on his side first, then tummy from around 20 weeks I think. He would sleep this way, but never on his back. He might well wake less if you can get him sleeping near you but not on you. Is this a realistic goal, do you think? How else could we tweak things so you would feel better?

Original poster
BellaBear · 26/05/2008 07:42

Thank you for replies, I really appreciate it.

I have put him on his front next to me, it doesn't seem to extend his sleep.

Re CC, am not against it in principle, I don't think (AM against Cry It Out, I think), but when DS cries, there seems to be a problem, like wind, which means I am loathe to leave him to cry lying down - I don't want him to be in pain more than I want to sleep for a decent amount of time.

Last night: asleep at 7.30, awake 8-8.30, 11.30-11.45, 1.30-2.15, 4-4.20, 6-6.15, 7.15 up.
So one 3 hour stint, but I wasn't asleep till 9.30 (which tbh makes me feel a little more human not be asleep at 8.30)

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Original poster
BellaBear · 26/05/2008 07:48

re 3 month crap - YES!!!!!!!!!!

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EffiePerine · 26/05/2008 07:57

No practical advice, but DS was exactly the same and it is utterly exhuasting. I really don't think there's a huge amount you can do at this age other than try and get as much rest as you can - nap during the day if poss, cosleep etc. I finally did some CC with DS but he was 15mo old and it worked really quickly, I would NOT have been happy doing it at 18 weeks. I think even the most passionate devotees of CC wouldn't advise it under 6 months.

(btw Dr Christopher Greene recommends using CC between a year and 18 months which sounds about right to me)

cluckyagain · 26/05/2008 08:09

Bellabear - poor you I remember it well. Just wanted to add on to the cc bit and am well aware that will probably get flamed for it. I ended up having to do it with my ds at this age (slightly younger actually) as he was quite obviously using me to get back to sleep in his 45 minute cycle (which they all have apparently) He was much like your ds pattern - disintegrating rather than improving and I was spending most of my days crying (and I wasn't depressed - just knackered!) I did cc and ds went from waking 8 times in 9 hours to waking for the first time at 9 hours.....sod! The HV advised me to leave him if he woke before 6 hours (he was vastly heavy) and then feed after that so that he only woke for food and not 'get me back to sleep'. It took 3 nights of crying (first night 1 hr, 2nd night 15 mins, 3rd night half hearted grumbing for 10 minutes) and then suddenly it all disappeared. I made sure that he went to bed awake at all times - they are specific to times for some unknown reason so if you're paranoid about wanting them to learn, do wake them up after feeds. I had to do it again for a little every few months as he 'tried again' but it was halfhearted and I knew what to do. Feel free to ignore me. xx

Original poster
BellaBear · 26/05/2008 09:24

I'm not going to flame anyone! I do know someone who did this with a two week old though. Well, CIO rather than CC.

It does actually help that other people have gone through this. It stops me thinking I am doing something wrong!

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Caz10 · 26/05/2008 12:44

hi just wanted to say you are not alone! dd started doing this at around 15wks, so i just thought it was the (mythical?!) 16wk growth spurt...now 23wks and worse than ever...

every 2 hrs last night, waking at 9.30, 11.30, 1.30, 3.30 (having a fairly big feed each time), then 5, 6 and 7am! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

i'm actually not doing half as much as i was, because i'm having at least one of her naps with her atm just to catch up, and it's really pissing me off

also look and feel like a bag of sh1te!

agree with sleeping on her side - we've just had a 1hr 30 mins nap which is unheard of, only because she fed to sleep and then stayed propped up on her side next to me. of course then i was too scared to sleep properly but it was at least a rest!