3 yrs old won't sleep until I make him cry

[Bauma]

My 3,5 yrs old son falls asleep easily in day-care or with grandparents. But when it is nap time/sleep time with me and/or my husband he cannot calm himself. He usually does not resist the bedtime routine and going to bed, he loves reading the bedtime story but when we say good night he starts to act out. The only way to make him sleep is to make him cry - by leaving him alone and repeatedly returning him to bed or by staying with him and holding him down in bed or other restrictive measures. It did not improve for several months no matter how "mean" or nice I am to him. We would not mind to stay with him in bed until he falls asleep,even not to share the bed all night (we share the bedroom). But none of this helps, when I lie down next to him he can jump on me,hit me etc. When we read, talk or sing it can take an hour and after that the acting out comes anyway.If I leave him alone he keeps getting up,I am pregnant and don't have the strength to put him back 20 times. It seems to me he is full of emotions,the crying works as relief and than he can fall asleep easily. But it is not the way I want it,I would like to find nicer way... Any tips for relaxing techniques etc?

You hold him down in bed??

Is he ready for bed at the time you are making him go?
Does he still need a nap?

I would recommend putting him to bed later if he is still napping. Talking and listening to him about it being night a sleeping time.
Have a clear calm bed time routine. Red light only (no blue). No TV after 4pm.

Try not to get cross. Imagine if you couldn't sleep or were restless in bed and someone was getting cross with you about it. Would it make you more or less likely to fall asleep?

Maybe he's not tired? a 3.5 year old doesn't need a nap?

It does not matter if it is 6pm or 11pm - the story is the same, even if he did not nap that day, I do not make him nap on weekends if he is not visibly tired.

Most of the days he does not watch TV/plays with phone at all.
I understand your points of trying not to get cross,I am not proud of holding him out etc.,it is a desparate measure.

Put a baby gate across his bedroom door..
Sorry but if he needs put back to bed 20 times that's what you need to do.

You actually hold your child down in bed??

If he hits me I hold his hands,if he kicks me his legs - what would you do? As I said above, I am really sad about it.

Would he lie down and listen to an audiobook or CBeebies radio? My daughter struggles to settle herself (she's a bit older) but loves CBeebies radio. It's just satirise and music in the evening.

*stories

He loves audiobooks,we often listen to them in car. But it does not make him sleep,he listens and when he starts getting really tired he calls for me,gets out of bed etc.

Also - besides this sleeping problem (he is bad sleeper since newborn with ups and downs) he is a great easy to care kid,we can sort everything out by communication or positive motivation. No problems with peers, teachers at daycare,no frequent tantrums etc. I really want to teach him to fall asleep nicely,not by crying him out in locked bedroom etc. I will try to use the red night light and maybe give some more chance to the audiobooks...

I would say to him you will come back when he’s quiet.

So if he’s quiet for ten seconds, go back in. Leave immediately if he kicks off. repeat over and over.

It was the thing that worked with mine. I stayed calm, I didn’t reward bad behaviour and it felt better.

In the end it meant we could stay and settle the kids and they could fall asleep properly.

Iggly,thanks for the tip,will try it.Did your child also have problems only with you - not in day-care,with babysitter, family etc? That is what seems strange to me in our case..

Yes they were always better for other people! Which made me think it was a cry for attention and as they were young, they couldn’t really explain themselves.

It is different with you as you are his primary caregivers so he feels safer (well in theory, maybe not if you're holding him down in bed)

I've never left DS if he was upset and the only thing that improved bedtime for us (was often over an hour of leaping about on me) was dropping his nap (3.5 is definitely on the older side to still be napping)

We also listen to moshi twilight stories once the light is off- he chooses one then settles down while i sit in the chair beside the bed. If he has to wriggle about, that's up to him but he's usually asleep within 15 minutes.

Type into YouTube "stories to help children sleep" there are loads. It really improved things for us

Another one here saying drop the nap.
We had terrible trouble with our son too but I think he just wasn’t tired. I know you’re saying it’s the same on days when he doesn’t nap but it won’t just change that quickly

Maybe try by dropping the nap and then doing a rewards chart. So figure out an item that he really wants or something he would like to do (cinema trip etc) draw up a nice star chart and talk to him all day about how if he goes to bed nicely for mom and dad and does no hitting /crying /screaming he will get a star: then after 5 stars he gets whatever the prize is: it’s important to talk about it a lot during the day- tell grandparents and nursery about it and build the excitement a bit. Then make a big fuss when you give him a star and lots of praise

Good luck!!

In your op you didn’t say you hold his arms and legs when he hits and kicks, you said or by staying with him and holding him down in bed or other restrictive measures which implies you hold him down to make him sleep..If you genuinely are holding him down in bed I’d stop doing it.

I’d drop the nap, and get a stair gate for his room. He’s learnt to hit and kick when you lie next to him and probably finds it funny. Every time he does it leave the room, and tell him you’ll come back when he stops.

Thanks everyone, I think cry for attention is the point,not addressing it and rewarding the good behavior immediately by coming back to him seems to start working right away.
I appreciate the tips about skipping the nap but it really is not our case - we tried for two weeks,no improvement in the evening, grumpy kid all afternoon and deliberately falling asleep while playing, eating etc. It may work if he would go to bed regularly at 6pm,but that does not fit with our family schedule.

I agree stop holding him down, this a brutal sounding way of falling asleep. I can’t imagine the experience of this if this were me every night, just because your DC is 3 it is no less traumatic. I’m wondering how much time he has with you after daycare, how long his day is there. I say this because it’s possible this is his way of spending time with you, having your attention and finding a way of interaction. It may be this that is the root cause. I’m so glad you reached out as I’m sure it’s been really tough on you too x

About holding him down in bed - I was probably not clear on that, sorry, English is not my native language. We try to make him sleep nicely,we don't mind sitting or lying next to him if he wants. Sometimes it works. If not and he keeps jumping on bed, singing, talking, climbing on us etc we leave. If he is very very tired this makes him cry, after few minutes of crying he falls asleep or we come back and he is all nice and sleeps quickly. But some days nothing of this works,he keeps leaving the bedroom,has fun of any "strict" reaction we have. This will stop only after something makes him cry - eg. he falls or hits himself because he is too tired and clumsy. Or - and that is what I meant by holding him down - I go to bed with him and hug him firmly,he makes fun of it but after very short time (like 2 minutes) starts crying, after that I immediately let him go,stay in bed with him and that is enough for him to fall asleep quickly. So that is what my OP was about - it seemed like he actually feels he is tired, sometimes he proposes to go to bed on his own but then he can't fall asleep until he relieves the emotions through crying. That's why I asked about relaxation techniques etc. Anyway after I read advice from Iggly I think I was wrong with this and it is actually really more attention seeking and we need a way to address this somehow.

@Bauma I understand you, my son is sometimes like that. Visibly tired but too wired to relax no matter what we try. Sometimes the only way to stop the jittering is to stop him from breaking away from my hug. He cries out in frustration (not pain or fear), and I don't like it of course, but I see it as a last resort to help him release that pent up energy and relax, which is my duty as a parent. It's a minute or so, and I make sure I am as reassuring and gentle as possible. I always snuggle with him the whole time until he falls asleep, it's part of our bedtime routine.

Another thing that sometimes helps is rocking him or wobbling; movement seems to help him calm down. I do this funny little shiver when we're snuggling that makes him gently wobble and that's also helpful. Funnily he never liked baby swings and rockers, only rocking while being held.

I noticed this burst of energy at bedtime happens more often when he hasn't had a good physical workout that day. He's very active, constantly running around and jumping. When we don't go to the park, soft play or find a way for him to expend that energy, he'll act out more often at bedtime. I try to give him enough exercise whenever possible, but occasionally it's not an option and then we have a situation at bedtime we need to figure out.

Good luck with your little man.

My 3year old daughter is exactly the same- I have no solution. It’s almost like she needs to release all the pent-up energy/emotion with naughtiness/tantrum, the falls asleep quickly, but not until I’ve been chasing her for an hour and a half.