getting a 10 year old to sleep so I can go to bed

[robinpud]

She doesn't watch tv before bed; she has hot milk; no tv in bedroom etc etc but generally takes at least an hour to fall asleep even if she has had a frantic day. I'm running out of ideas and on some nights patience.
any miracle cures?

What time does she go to bed and what time do you want her to go to bed?

Dependent upon the above, how do you feel about her going to bed and not being asleep (reading or drawing perhaps) whilst you go to bed and go to sleep yourself?

we aim for lights out at 8.30pm on most normal nights. We don't go to bed until around 11pm but in between 8.30 and whenever she finally falls asleep she often gets upset or tearful.
I don't like going to bed until she is asleep.

mine is the same... He's always bobbing down these days at 10.30 saying he can't sleep. I hear him playing in his room at 11pm when I am desperate for sleep.

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8.30 sounds early to me too. My DS1 is just 8 and very very rarely goes to sleep before 9 p.m., and often not until nearly 10 p.m. He plays quietly (well, quietly-ish!) in his room with DS2 until lights out and then reads in our room or his bedroom by torchlight.

8.30 does seem rather early. I recall DS going to bed at that age at about 9-9.30pm.

Perhaps try letting her go to bed a bit later?

My dd is 11 and goes up at 8.30 if she wants to read and 9 if she wants to watch something on tv until then. TV supervised by me downstairs that it. Once she's up stairs, there's no coming down til morning. If she cant sleep, then she does her tables in her head until she does! I know it sounds harsh, but they are not babies at 10 or 11 and need to learn to go to sleep by themselves. Unless, of course there is something underlying that you need to address.

I don't think there's any way of making someone go to sleep if they are not ready to sleep - bar a club or something like that! What does she get upset and tearful about? Is she worried because she knows you want her asleep and she can't? If so, I would guess that's a bit counter productive. How about letting her go to bed a bit later - say 9.00, then let her read for half an hour or so, then let her lie in bed with a story tape or some gentle music, telling her that it's OK if she can't sleep but she needs to rest. Then you can potter about getting ready for bed and she might just nod off if the pressure's off her.

Not that it matters that much, but my 9YO goes to bed at 8pm, reads until 8.30ish and is usually asleep within 10 minutes or so (unlike DS2(7) who is often still awake at 9.30/10) Different children have different sleeping patterns.

If it wasn't for the fact that you're saying she's getting upset, I'd say just leave her to it - let her read quietly in her room. If she's OK in the morning, and isn't disturbing you then it's not a problem. However it's the fact she's getting upset isn't it? Do you know why she's getting upset? Is it boredom, or the dark, or being on her own? When I was 10 I started suffering from terrible insomnia, and night hallucinations (can't remember the technical term, sorry) and it was down to the fact that I'd suddenly become aware of the wider world - it was about the time of Threads and the nuclear threat and I suddenly realised that my Mum could and would die. We dealt with it by leaving the hall light on, and my door open, and I had a little radio which I was allowed on quietly so that I could hear voices and didn't feel alone. It didn't help me sleep, but stopped me freaking out every night and waking my mum at 2am to check she was still alive

oh serenity, I had nightmares for years over Threads...

Bet if I watched it now, I'd think it was pants

8.30 is earlier than some on here admittedly, but we are often up and out by 8am so she needs to be awake well before 7.30am in the morning.
It doesn't seem to make any difference to the pattern if she does go to bed later, she still takes at least an hour to go to sleep.
She frequently complains of being tired.
I just have run out of things to suggest- she gets frustrated at her own inability to go to sleep.

bearing in mind this is still summer hols, my ds aged 9¾ has been going to bed at 10 - 10.30, often at the same time as me. i'm happy to have him lounging on the sofa watching (supervised) tv, listening to cd books or reading. however school bedtime is 9pm and he struggles a bit going to sleep, so i just tell him that lying quietly in a darkenend room is just as good as real sleep. at their age they need to know the importance of rest and maybe talk about sleep is your body's way of recharging.

she can go to bed at midnight and still take an hour or so to go to sleep sometimes. I want to her to have a routine or someothing to help her relax and sleep

Have you tried talking books with her robinp?

I find if I listen to a talking book in the dark I'm asleep within minutes (and that worked even before I had children, of course now I just fall asleep if I have my eyes closed for more than about 3 seconds ).

Why do you think she's getting upset? I know at around 10/11 my DSS started to get worried about things that he hadn't previously been. Do you think it's something new that's troubling her or just that she's upset because she doesn't want to go to bed/sleep or be away from you?