Noisy 4 year old & excitable toddler sharing room. I can't get them to sleep,wwyd?

[JamesAndTheGiantBanana]

The girls share a bedroom. Ive always got the youngest to sleeping her bouncy chair downstairs because 4 year old dd1 is noisy and silly, and gets dd2 all wound up and excited.

Dd2 is a big girl and her bouncy chair is getting too small, harness is too tight. So oh thinks it's time to get her to sleep in her cot. This means sitting on the floor next to the cot with white noise on, holding her hand and shushing and things, for up to 2 hours a night. Fair play to dd1 she goes to sleep (but she wouldn't if we weren't sat there, she would lie there singing Let It Go loudly instead) but dd2 just won't. It's wasting my evening every night and I've got so much to do.

I'd happily bring her back downstairs and get her back in the old routine (ok doesn't fix too-tight harness problem) but oh thinks it's a backwards step. I'm tired though. I want my evenings back! We don't have a spare room,ds is in the other. What should I do? What works for you?

Any ideas?

How old is ds? Why can't the 4 year old share with him?

Other option is to set up a travel cot in your room - how old is the youngest?

My two share a room (5&3 and have done for a couple of years). Sometimes we had to put one down first then the other (usually the oldest then the youngest)

How old is ds?

My dds have shared since they were around 4 and 2, and it isn't always quiet but they get to sleep. They are now 10 and 7.

Dd1 is getting a bit fed up of sharing, and so we are thinking about putting dd2 in with ds (he's 2) for a bit as dd2 doesn't want to be alone.

How much hand holding/shushing were you doing with dd2 when she was downstairs?

I'd move straight to hard bribes for dd1 to keep quiet while going to sleep, if you think that dd2 will go to sleep without you too. Big, immediate rewards which you can scale down over time.

How is dd2's understanding? Can you potter about upstairs (leave tier door open maybe?) so she can know you are within earshot/sight while she settles?

Mine are 2 and 5. Big one isn't too silly but if she's crying or something we bring her out and put her in our bed until we go up if necessary. This is rare though.

Little one goes to bed first in his bottom bunk. He's usually asleep by the time DD has had her stories, but just stays in bed. But he was used to going to sleep on his own in his cot before we put them in the same room. Could you have a cot in your room so you could do gradual retreat or controlled crying until she's learned to go to sleep alone?

Sorry, dd2 (youngest) is 15 months. When she was downstairs we had a routine of put ting her in a rocking baby chair, two lullaby songs off mumsnet app, then tumble dryer sound effect, whilst holding her hand, and she would go off to sleep reasonably quickly with minimal fuss. Obviously it's not great for us because then we had to sit in virtual silence until dd1 had fallen asleep (after the 51st rendition of Let It Go) then oh carried her up and put her in the cot.

Dd1 used to share with Ds, he is 7 and has mild sn, he really needs his own space, not just for bedtime but a mancave to retreat to which it all gets too loud.

Baby used to be in our room. Maybe that's the solution, maybe we need to get her back in there (groan) but it would still mean sitting there holding her hand for ages. Unless we took the rocking chair upstairs next to the cot and did the routine up there and put her in...

Aaargh, how are you meant to get them to self settle? My other two did, this one has no bloody concept of how to fall asleep on her own.

If I potter about outside her room she stands up and cries til I go in. The only exception to this is if she has a long warm bath and a bottle of milk directly after, then she MAY fall asleep while we're getting the other two ready for bed. But we can't bath them every night, it takes ages!

DD (14 months) goes to sleep well but will wake easily. Ds (4) takes ages to go to sleep, but then stays asleep well. They share a room.
We put DD to bed in her cot, and DS goes to sleep in our bed and we move him once he's asleep. It's a pain, but it's the way that works best right now.

I would sort getting 15month to sleep in cot. Let 4 year old fall asleep in your room and transfer over when you go to bed.

Once youngest falls asleep quicker, then put them to bed first, and 4 year old an hour later.

Does your 15 month old really need so many sleep props? Lullabies, white noise, Bouncy chairs, hand holding etc.
Tbh I would go hard core. No more music, white noise or bouncing about, it's probably just stimulating her to stay awake longer.

Feed milk downstairs, take upstairs, into bath/ pjs ( can get 4 year olds on also or bath same time), read story to both, then eldest goes out and reads quietly in your bed.
Then 15month old in cot, kiss and say goodnight, give comfort toy. Sit on floor next to cot, minimal interacting, hand holding/ soothing as needed. If she stands you repeat ' it's sleeping time sweety', lay back down. Repeat

Thanks, I may try putting DD1 in our bed, to be honest though as long as I'm sitting in their room she'll stay quiet and go to sleep, its only if I leave that she'll get noisy. It's mainly that the baby who will not lie down and just go to sleep, she stands up, chats, screams happily and does cute hiding games etc.

I ignore as much as possible but it was pissing me off last night because she had her leg through the bars trying to kick my arm which she thought was hilarious and I just had no patience left (it was 10pm, bedtime started 7.30pm)

The lullabys were used consistently every nap and bedtime to let her know it's time. The white noise to cover up any small noises the other two were making while going to bed. She doesn't have any kinds of comfort objects or dummies, she just wants to hold my hand. (Bless her)

I get the feeling I can't see the wood for the trees here lol

For the next few days I would start bedtime later. You say it's starting 7.30pm but still awake 10pm. So instead if gettin stressed by the time, tonight don't even start bdtime until 9pm. She will likely be extra tired so will fall asleep quicker, and you will have only spent 9-10pm on bedtime instead of 2 1/2 hours.

Can move bedtime gradually earlier again once she has got used to new bedtime routine

They'll all be throwing hysterical overtired tantrums if we suddenly make bedtime much later. It's always 8pm (I mean we start getting them into pyjamas, choosing books, brushing teeth at 7.30pm ish)

The school age two are always tired at bedtime. Youngest IS tired, just won't give in unless she's in the chair with familiar routine.

I mean 9pm for youngest. Put older two to bed at 8pm then, and youngest at 9pm so she doesn't have the energy to fight sleep for as long

If she's the type to stay awake being cute when you're in the room, then maybe she needs a different approach. Have you got particular objections to controlled crying? I have with young babies, but by this age mine both took less than ten minutes of crying, once, to learn to sleep.

Have to agree with pp - at this age and stage I would be going for tough love. Rewards and sanctions for older DD, rewards and CC for younger. Try and keep as much of the routine in as you can for younger DD e.g. the white noise. Maybe introduce a night time cot buddy - perhaps Santa can bring one? Something cuddly.

She has had a couple of soft toys in her cot but she's not really interested in them, and one is peppa (her favourite thing on earth usually)

Not sure about controlled crying, I'm reading up on it now. I think I tried something once back in the mists of time with ds but he cried until he was sick. :-/

I'd be happier with the settle and leave method. She hardly ever cries and I don't want to distress her.

Thanks all! Got some ideas to try. I'll report back.

Ah, yes, I was very lucky when I did decide to do CC - I think I got the right time for both of them. DD was 14 months and it took one evening. The longest she cried for was nine minutes. DS was younger - just under one I think and feeding to sleep, waking every half hour or so. I was completely exhausted and at the end of my tether. He didn't even cry for nine minutes!

I started at one minute and added a minute on each time, rather than doubling it as is sometimes suggested. It was amazing how well it worked for us. I'm very against it in little babies, but had to try it at this point.

Oh balls to it, I put her in her chair downstairs, held her hand (no lullabys or white noise) and she's fallen asleep for 8.30. Which means I have Time! Time to iron and wrap presents and sort out my eyebrows which are now huge because I never have time to sit and pluck them!

I'll deal with this another day. (sticks head in sand)

If that works for you, then do it while it does! Have a good evening.