20 wo bad sleeper (sorry it's a bit long would rather try to give you full story all at once)

[Crocodilehunter]

Until 8 weeks DS was a horrendous sleeper like 36 hours awake kind of thing.
When I started to establish a routine things did get better, but the routine is a killer, we go upstairs at 8, get him changed then he feeds feeds feeds... Feeds until he is well away (this can take us to 11PM+) but eventually he would sleep and we sometimes got till 6-7am with no waking.

Then at 15 weeks we hit the 4month sleep regression where DS would not sleep in his crib at all!

No ds is 20 wk We have managed to get him in to the crib for a couple of hrs (some nights) but i'm starting to get fed up about not having an evening.

We have tried teaching him to fall asleep himself e.g unlatching him from breast when almost asleep & placing him in crib his eyes just ping open and he screams.

We have tried me feeding DS and DP putting him down.

Lately I have taken to giving DS his feed, placing him in his crib when he's finished the feed the putting my breast through the bars so he'll suckle himself to sleep (DS won't take a dummy or a bottle for that matter) it truly is a sight that no body should ever wish to see

How can I reduce the time it takes to get my lovely little man to sleep?

He also does not sleep in the day (other that 5-10 mins here and there on the breast) as soon as I try to place him down again the same eyes open and let screaming commence.

There's no in between, if we put him down awake he screams there is no progression time up to the screaming and there is no slight calming him once he is in the crib (apart from the boob through the bars thing)

The experts say to follow the ques eye rubbing, yawning which I do during the day and in the evening volume on radio/tv goes down, lights dimmed, my tone of voice changes to calm but he stays awake whether I feed him, put him down, anything.

I feel like I'm doing something wrong and can't seem to get it right!

HV and doctor just say "All babies are different" which is fair enough but doesn't help!

Feel alone in this.

Any advice? Or anyone in the same predicament?

Feel for you but our boy was the same. In retrospect, the hardest thing was the pressure we put on ourselves to have a good sleeper.

My gut is he is too young to train. As long as you have the basic structure in place, I wouldn't beat yourself up over trying to get him to self-settle. Now I'm mum to a toddler, all that rod-back stuff feels like nonsense. I rocked like a crazy person trying to get him to settle without the boob, but in retrospect, I'm not sure it would have been better to just snuggle him and enjoy him while he was small.

Our boy did eventually settle, aged 10 months. We worked so hard at it, but I reckon we made it harder than it needed to be.

Follow your gut. You know what he needs.

I'd try a cranial osteopath he doesn't seem to get much sleep in 24 hours?

To be honest if i counted all the co-sleeping and the short naps whilst feeding he probably gets quite a bit, its the independant sleep we arent getting much of!
L

Sorry not finished typing,
Looking up Cranial Osteopathy it seems quite interesting, never heard of it before.

he sounds very overtired, the "no in between" and eyes pinging open that you describe is v much an overtired thing I think?

how much sleep does he get during the day (from 7 till 7)? he needs about 3-4 hours at least during that time, possibly quite a bit more if he has a sleep deficit to make up. will he sleep if being pushed in the pram? if so I'd suggest trying to get him to have more sleep in the day by taking him out in the pram, then see if that makes things easier in the evenings.

I think 20 weeks or sometime shortly thereafter was the point at which I gave up on the idea of 'independent sleep' for DS (now 10 months) and it actually made things much easier, both if us much happier and we got more sleep on his part, and more rest on mine. Every two hours from when he wakes up, just plan a sit down where you can let him nap on you - don't try putting him a cot or pram - and he'll have a decent long sleep, and you'll get a nice relaxing sit down with Mumsnet, TV and a cuppa. Win, win as I was delighted to find out! He should have about three naps a day this way, which is right for his age. The change in my DS's mood when I let him nap how he wanted to was brilliant. There is a theory, which never worked for me but it might for you, that if you can get decent daytime naps you'll have easier nights. I can now feed DS to sleep and put him in his cot for naps during the day. Much as I'd like to think that was down to me getting him into a nap routine of sorts and persistence, I think it's actually entirely due to letting him learn how to get to, and stay, asleep in his own time and in his preferred way without stressing about it.

I still rarely have an evening with DH because I'm too tired to do anything other than go to bed when DS does at 7pm in preparation for his 30 million wake-ups, and I end up co-sleeping for much of the night, but I figure it's only going to be for a tiny proportion of DS's life and I'll get evenings back soon enough.

And I've also been known to sling a boob into the cot. Often.

Yeah, DS doesn't get too much sleep during the day, I'd say up to an hour on a normal day, it is just through not being able to sleep independently.

I think I will try a regular pram walk minipie which he does enjoy and will half the time drop off for a nap and letting him nap on me without trying to put him down elphaba (you don't need to tell me twice to sit down with a cuppa )

Think I might be spending too much time stressing about the independent part, after all it is for such a small amount of time in the grand scheme of things if he's still doing it at 15 I know I have a problem on my hands

yeah an hour is definitely not enough tbh. if you get him to have more day sleep (aim for say 3 x 1 hr or 4 x 45 min) on you or in pram then he will not be overtired and you can work on independent sleep at night time more easily. nothing works when they are overtired!

Have you tried a sling? My dd (17 w) won't sleep alone either so for daytime naps I mostly stick her in the moby wrap and walk round the house till she goes off. The advantage is you have your hands free and if necessary I can now even cook dinner with her in there! This won't help for the evenings but might help with the over tiredness issue.