What would you do with my nearly 4 year old dd?

[welshmum]

Up until ds became mobile and more 'chatty' dd has been an exemplary sleeper, 7pm until 7am with never a peep. Now, if she's disturbed at night, she'll wake and refuse to go back to sleep for two hours plus. It's driving me batty. She calls out repeatedly for water/food/that she's hot/lonely/whatever comes to mind. Last night after 2 hours of calling out I picked her up and took her downstairs to show her that it was the middle of the night and nothing was going on anywhere at all.
I don't know how to get through to her that it's just not acceptable, she's had star charts which work for about a week then back to square one. At the moment it feels like she drops off just as ds wakes to start his day at 5am. I'm getting desperate. Do I need to get really tough? I feel for her as I think she's having a delayed reaction to ds's arrival but this needs to stop as it's wrecking my days and stopping me enjoying the two of them.

god knows

but sympathies as dd2 (3.5) has started doing this too - she just gets up and comes in asking for a hot water bottle, cuddle, chat etc

havent got as far as working out a strategy yet but will keep you posted

i read recently, probably on here!! that age 4 is when they really start to understand fear....monsters under the bed/things at the window/wardrobe/dark/noises everything.
i dont really have any advice, just letting you know its quite common at thhis age (our ds is 4)

would you lie at the edge of her bed until she falls asleep? although i know this isnt for everyone, it works for us at bedtime.

have you tried sending her to bed a little later

also this sounds draconian but it has worked for me

when kids play up and wont go to sleep, I have brought them all downstairs after asking them numerous times to go to sleep
and kept them awake with not tv on, no toys etc just plain and boring sitting there
once they have started nodding off, I ask them to wake up as they have woken me up and they will have to be awake with me
It is only when I know they are shattered and cant keep their eyes open that I ask them if they are going to go to bed and let me have some sleep too
they do
if they do it again, say the next night, I repeat it but this usually doesnt need to happen as a simple warning and no activity is enough for them to stay in bed.

don't know about welshmum but that wouldnt work for me as I am NOT getting up and going downstairs at 3am

LOL:) enid but bear it in mind for the future really as it does work with slightly older kids iykwim

It hasn't occurred to mine to get out of bed instead I get 'Mummeeeeeeeeeeeeee' and then I jump up scared stiff she'll wake the baby who currently takes an hour to resettle himself.
I know it'll pass but I feel like I've aged about 10 years in 9 months and can't string a sentence together.
She used to be so very very good and now I find myself so incensed with her...hate being too knackered to be a nice mum.

DSW - she's too knackered to go past 7 most nights.
This morning we said we'd put her favourite toy in the loft and that it wouldn't come down until she stopped calling out at night.....she offered to help put it in the plastic bag...arrrgghhhhh

pmsl welshmum@ plastic bag rofl

We have this periodically wiht ds1 (4.3). We use a combination of star charts, continuous reinforcement (i.e. every night, remind him to stay quiet in the night) and giving him strategies to help himself (e.g. if he has been calling because he's lost teddy, explain that he can look for teddy himself(!)). If that doesn't work, we try to diminish the amount of attention he gets when he calls out - so, instead of going in at the first peep and sorting out his problem (which we always keep very brief, less than 30s), we might just go to the door and say 'shhh' briefly. And then leave him to it. This normally helps - though I am resigned to him just being a child that often wakes, so I work on the waking not disturbing us.

Ooh welshmum - sleep deprivation is so hard - especially when it's coming from a child who you thought was sorted in that area.

There are all the obvious suggestions - make sure she has a sippy cup (or some sort of cup that won't spill if knocked over) within reach so she can get a drink if she's thirsty. Or, could you get her one of those clocks with the bunny ears so she knows it's not time to get up until the ears are in the right place? (Don't say anything about staying in bed until it's light outside, as soon it will be light at 5 AM! ).

I know you've consulted a sleep expert for the little one. Might this woman have some suggestions for an older child?

One last thing that has helped us is a white sound machine. It's in dd's room, and goes on whenever it's time to sleep. I think she finds it soothing, it's an aural cue that it's time to sleep, and it stops her from hearing other sounds in the house so she isn't disturbed as easily. Not sure if that would help your dd, but it might be something to consider for your little one. That way, you won't need to panic that he'll wake when your dd is making noise.

Have you talked to dd about why she's doing this? Is she able to articulate anything that can be addressed? Hope things get better soon.

May be a long shot, but she's not hungry is she? My dd went through similar a couple of years ago, for several months she was waking and staying awake for a couple of hours and wanted me with her. It was only when we went to a Christening with a buffet, and she made a pig of herself, and slept through that we realised what might be wrong - I upped her food and sorted it. Hope you get it sorted soon.

welshmum - was your dd better last night? Or was it another long one? Here's hoping you got a bit more sleep....or even alot more!