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Sleep

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Original poster

any Baby Whisperers out there? Reading the book and I have a question

16 replies

mckenzie · 18/01/2006 22:01

I'm thinking about trying pick up put down or ssh and pat with 10 month old DD. The book only arrived today and so I haven't read it from cover to cover but ideally I'd like to start tonight as DH is away for a few days and it's easier without him grunting and groaning at being disturbed (typical male huh?)

She talks about patting on the back but DD sleeps on her back so how does that work?
With PUPD, she says not to pick up until baby stands up but DD never does that.

If I've understood it correctly, I go in, pick DD up, as soon as she stops crying I put her back down again. DO I then leave the room? If she starts crying i pick her straight back up again and then straight back down when she stops etc etc. I say soothing things like "yes, i know you've suddenly woken but it's time to go back to sleep now"

and what about a blankey or toy of some sort? Ds never had anything and I've kept away from that as I'd then be worried about losing whatever it was DD got attached to. Do you think they really help?

So may questions for such a late time of night huh? Sorry! and TIA.

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Original poster

mckenzie · 18/01/2006 22:20

may I bump please just in case anyone is still up?

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MuddlingThru · 18/01/2006 22:40

My ds is only 7 months and I used PUPD when he was about 4 months but I know the technique changes as they get older so not sure about your questions. However there is an interview on the baby whisperer site which might be helpful on the detail
\link{http://www.babywhisperer.com/forum/special-sleep-interview-with-tracy-hogg-vt3189.html}

MuddlingThru · 18/01/2006 22:40

Nemo1977 · 18/01/2006 22:48

hi
i used PUPD with ds.
he also slept on his back so used to just pat his tummy. it is just the reassurance of you being there. When i used to go in all I would say is shhh its sleep time. thats it nothing else. Ds also has a reindeer who is his comfort toy but this is something he picked when he was 1 before that he didnt have anything so dont think its necessary to have one.

QE2 · 18/01/2006 22:51

I have used a combination of PUPD and sshh and pat. If ds4 was crying I would say sshh to him at the same time as rubbing his tummy or his side depending on how he was lying at the time. Sometimes I left him to cry for a good 5 mins before going in to him and he would be standing up so I did the PUPD. For me to be able to do this I had to move ds3 out of his room into ds1's for 10 days to really break the habit of waking and not going back to sleep. I found if I left the room immediately, he would just stand up and cry so I stood by his cot facing away from him, just so he knew I was there. He kept looking round for me, then snuggled himself back down again. Each time he did that, I stepped away from the cot until I was right by the door, then out. It seemed to help him knowing I was there but he didn't want me to pick him up again, thankfully.

All of mine have had a blankey/comforter/teddy. ds4 has a bear that is specifically kept for bedtime or naptime. At 13 months he has now got used to this being a cue if you like that bedtime is coming and when he has it, he should be sleeping. So, yes, I personally think they do help.

Sorry for the long ramble! ds4 has been the worst of my 5, but you do get there in the end - he took about 10 days of doing this every night. Now (touch wood!) he sleeps through with only the occasional whinge and he settles himself back off to sleep without me needing to go to him (and ds3 has moved back into the room!)

Original poster

mckenzie · 19/01/2006 19:44

thanks for the replies. I went ot bed last night before seeing them though and so did a version of PUPD but it didn't seem to be working and because I wasn't confident I knew what i was doing I did revert to the cuddle in the dark. DD doesn't fall asleep on me thoguh, she just chats away to herself while i cuddle her and then when I've had enough/i'm cold/i'm bored etc I put her back in her cot. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But whatever, it's not what i really want to do long term so I shall read more of the book tonight and also check out the website (thanks muddlingthru).

I trying to get to the bottom of the reason for her being like this though. I dont think it can be that she's forgotten how to settle herself as she goes to bed wide awake at 7pm and I dont hear a peep out of her, she's snoring in about 2 mins. So why, shen she wakes, does she feel she needs me? Or maybe I'm being a crap mum and not realising that actually she's teething madly and is in pain. But then why does she act cool as a cucumber when i cuddle her and chat away to herself quite happily? Does look like seperation anxiety doesn't it?

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nulnulcat · 19/01/2006 19:50

i have had the same problem she has still not slept through the night and she is 2!! im a single mum and knackered a good night i have to go into her 2 or 3 times on a bad night it can be every 45 mins to 90 mins all night!! i have tried everything pupd controlled crying even had her in wiht me at one point she can settle herself to sleep ok but needs me to go into her to tell her to lie back down and go to sleep any ideas of what to try next please?

Original poster

mckenzie · 19/01/2006 20:20

Sounds like you need a new plan nulnulcat. And a supportive friend or mum to help you see it through. Have you read the interview that Muddlingthru told me about on this post? I've just read it - very interesting and helpful.

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Original poster

mckenzie · 20/01/2006 16:23

thanks again Muddlingthur for the link to the interview with tracy Hogg re the sleep problems. I tried shh/pat last night and it made for a better night all round, for sure. It did take 30 mins and I kept thinking about giving up and just picking her up but I'm so glad I had read the interview again just before bed so I had the baby Whisperers voice in the backgroud making sure I kept it up. DD wasn't crying at all after the inital tears, only when I tried to walk away before she was obviously settled did she start off agian and then i soon as I sshh/patted again she stopped immediately. I ended up doing leg stretches and pelvic tilts and all sorts while I was shhing in the dark!!

Fingers crossed for tonight. Only thing i'm concerned about though - wont this shh/patting become the crutch that the book talks about keeping away from?

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MuddlingThru · 20/01/2006 16:46

I did find that in a way it did become a crutch. However I also found that it was possible to gradually wean him off it relatively easily, ie to begin with ssh/pat till he was fully asleep, then until his eyes had just closed, then till the eyelids were bouncing, etc...

Original poster

mckenzie · 20/01/2006 17:53

that makes sense but I did it last night in the complete dark so i was just going by her breathing, I could just about make out her body shape but couldn't see whether her eyes were open or not. Still, although it was still 30 mins from start to finish (and sometimes i's even been nearer 2 hours) I got back into bed quite rested as all i'd done was stand at the cot and make nice noices rather than being up and down, in and out of bed, hearing cries etc. So this way is much nicer, whatever the outcome.

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Original poster

mckenzie · 21/01/2006 17:52

oh heck. I sopke too soon didn't I? Last ngiht was a nightmare. DD woke early (just before 11) and I did exactly the same shh/pat as I'd done the night before. This time though, after 4 attempts (ie, shh-pat, DD breathing heavily and peaceful, me leaving the room, 2 mins later more tears) I lost my resolve and picked her up, cuddled her for about 3 mins and tehn put her back donw and all was well. I'm so cross with myself though for giving in at such an early hurdle. What shall I do tonight?

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MuddlingThru · 22/01/2006 16:30

In the middle of the night it is so hard to be objective/patient when all you want is a) baby to go to sleep so that b) you can go to sleep. The temptation is to leave before they are ready for you to leave. It is a false economy in the end though as you have to start over. Very difficult to balance that with not wanting them to become dependent on your presence. No easy answer I am afraid - or not IME anyway.

Baja · 11/03/2006 14:28

Hi there,
if you do ssh/pt or pu/pd stay in the room when you're establishing the method for 20mins to make sure they've gone into their deep sleep, otherwise you end up starting it over again and again as you've found out.
Once you've got the method established you can cut this time down till eventually you don't stay in the room.
it's a softer and therefore longer approach than cc or cio, so be prepared for a good few weeks of it.
good luck. x

Clure · 12/03/2006 16:00

I did sh pat from when DD was few weeks and you do have to stick at it. It did become easier and she was more able to settle quickly. i used to swaddle her and prop her slightly on side to pat her back/shoulder. Eventually only needed to sh and lay hand on her. This worked till old enough to unswaddle. I didn't need to do PUPD as a dummy popped in would usually get her back to sleep. But think have made a rod for my back now as when dummy doesn't work I have spent many hours cuddling back to sleep. Difficult this one - don't want her to feel abandoned and have that trust boken thing that BW talks about, but DD now 13 months and feel that I may have to try PUPD now as we have had a spell of crying in night (teething, going through that separation thing) and feeling knackered! This last fortnight she cries like her heart is going to break when I leave the room. I had left her to cry it out for a bit but I hate doing this and feel really torn. maybe time for a bit of PUPD

Baja · 13/03/2006 19:24

embarking on pu/pd is really daunting, but when you're in there doing it with your child it is comforting to know that you're with them when they cry.
to get myself into it i started doing it loosely during the day naps as an intro to the nights, it helped me and i think my ds.
at 8months at the beginning of it we were doing it for an hour and a half, but that dropped very quickly to 40mins. it's knackering, but it is worth it.
i'm also using a blanket with ds to tuck him in so he gets that sensation of a cuddle, it doesn't stop him waking up, but i think it's helped cut the number of wakings down.
BW talks about using pain relief when you know your child is teething, and my ds had a nightmare with his teeth, and found this really good advice, because if theyr'e overtired and in pain they're miserable.

xbaja

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