OK I admit it - I need some advice (3 month old)

[Miaou]

Ds is a very happy baby, but in no kind of routine at all. Well vaguely - he sleeps till about 11am, wakes for an hour(has a feed in that time), sleeps for another hour, then after that anything can happen. Generally he will go to sleep around midnight/1am, have a feed during the night at some point, but go back to sleep.

This last week he has taken to sleeping from somewhere between 6pm and 9pm, which is fine, but when he wakes for his late night feed, he won't go back to sleep. He is tired (overtired, possibly?), fed, warm, dry - but fights it continually. If I put him back in his cot he works himself into a yell, and the last two nights I have ended up bringing him downstairs until he calms down. Night before last - that was 2.30am, last night, 3am!!! Consequently, both he and I are exhausted, at the moment he is still asleep! (he woke for a feed at 9am but went back to sleep).

I am reluctant to put him into a "routine" but obviously this can't continue - can you give me some ideas of how to break this cycle?

Hi,
I have ds who is now just over 14 weeks and I started trying to get her into a routine at around 11 weeks, I started by a set time for her bath which was followed by playtime feed time then quiet time which took us to around 8pm. I would then put her in her crib to fall asleep I found I had to keep going in to reassure her but after a while she realised it was sleep time. This took about 2 weeks and she is now able to put herslef to sleep, He will soon realise that its bath time play time feed time then BED but you will have to keep on it. Hope this helps

This sounds awful for you. I wouldnt let him sleep in until 11am, I would make sure he was up and 'busy' around 7am-8am. Also a bedtime routine might help, my ds has 'nappy free time' at 5.30pm, bath at 6pm, and bottle at 6.30pm, bed at around 7pm. He then sleeps until around 6am the next morning. Its like he knows whats happening, he knows its bedtime as he is familiar with the order of routine.
During the day we dont have much of a routine, he may sleep for an hour or two in the day, depends how he feels.
Good luck!

Hmm maybe you're right and I need to try and impose some kind of routine. However at the moment, to have him up and awake at 8am would mean he would only have had 5 hours sleep! (and me!). Perhaps we can gradually work into it.

Any more suggestions?

I looked back in my sleep diary (sad - I know!!) and my dd's routine was something like this at 12 weeks:

7.00 wake up and bottle
9.00 nap
10.30 bottle
12.00ish nap (used to fight this one so car was useful!)
2.00 bottle
4.00ish nap
5.00 bottle
8.00 bath
8.30 bottle
9.00 bed

It took a while to get there but IMHO routine is the only way to stay sane (for me!). I used the Baby Whisperer book to help me.

p.s. by 4 months she dropped the 3rd nap and we re-arranged the afternoon a bit and she was going to bed at 7pm - so anything is possible.

spookyboo - that routine looks similar to ds old routine!
It is true that a routine does help to keep you sane as well as baby!

Most definitely! I'm a stickler for the old routine - though when I was pg I swore I never would be - I was going to be an earth mother and listen to what my baby told me . Unfortunately we didn't seem to speak the same language.
Seriously though, dd just got better and better once she got the hang of the routine and now, at 21 months, gets quite confused and cross if something happens outside her routine (which of course from time to time it does - I'm not that strict!).

thanks for that spookyboo - I keep a sleep/feed diary too, tthat's how I noticed how erratic it was getting!!!

Dd's was something like this.

7/8am Wake, first feed
10 nap
12/1 bottle
2 nap
4 bottle
6/7 bath, bottle, bed
10 last feed.

Then she would sleep through.
We did this right up until she was about 6 months and then when we establshed weaning we finally dropped the 10pm bottle and topped up the rest of the feeds.

ds (breastfed) is still feeding 7-8 times a day!

Miaou, so was DS - it's trial and error when they're this little IMO.

But one bit of advice that really helped me was that a baby's "day" should start with a good bedtime routine - once we had a bedtime routine sorted, DS started sleeping better and being more regular with his breastfeeds.

Also putting him in a baby sleeping bag helped too.

Have to add it wasn't something we did ourselves dd just seemed to put herself in to this routine so we stuck to it.

Right - new routine starts now! I'm going to start off with a bit of nappy free time followed by a bath (up till now I have been bathing him in the morning).

Good luck with it Miaou! Give your gorgeous DS a cuddle from me x x x

Good luck.

Hope it goes well

Well - ds had half an hour's nappy free time, a dose of calpol because he is teething (and tbh I think that is the root of the lack of sleep atm), then a bath, a scream for 10 mins , then a feed upstairs with a dim light and then to sleep. Asleep by 7.20pm, still asleep just now - longest he has gone for a long time!!

If I'm back on here after midnight you'll know it hasn't worked!!

That sounds great. Teething always cocked up our routine as dd got nappy rash everytime which made her bad tempered.

Would you wake him for another feed before you go to bed?

If he wakes at 11am and naps between 6pm and 9am I think it is natural that he will go to sleep very late! If I was doing that, I'd be wide awake until the early hours too. I think his whole sleep schedule needs shifting and you have to start in the morning, waking him no later than 8-9am, and keeping him awake for at least an hour, ideally two before he goes back to sleep.
My dd still wakes at night for feed at 9months so I'm certainly no smug Gina Ford acolyte, but IMO you've got to start waking that baby in the morning or you'll go mad!

Well, I'm swithering, nbg. He usually wakes himself because dh and I can't resist having a chat before we go to sleep - I then feed and change him and then it all goes pear-shaped!

Thing is, if I wake him for a dream-feed I will have to change his nappy, because he won't settle back down to sleep if it is wet, but if I change it then he will be fully awake. Hmmmm.

One tip I was given was to break the feed in half as I was having that problem when dd was quite young.

I gave her half her bottle, stopped to give her a swift nappy change and then give the rest of the bottle.

Yes I do do that (one boob, then change, then the other boob), but by that time he's chuckling and doing comedy grins at dh and has no intention of going back to sleep, lol!!!

Hmmm, will see how the land lies when I go up. If he's really deeply asleep I might leave him, if not I'll feed him.

Off to bed now (hopefully) - thanks for the support!!

Your welcome. You get off and have your rest. Let us know how you get on.

Wahey!!! I didn't wake ds for a feed when I went up because he was in a really deep sleep, but he woke of his own accord at 11pm and fed for 30 mins (a long time for him). I changed him but he was still so tired that he went back to bed with a minimum amount of fussing and went back to sleep within 10 minutes - hooray! He woke for a feed at 5.30am and is still asleep just now - however I think he will wake fairly soon as he is wriggling around. No point trying to wake him until he is ready, he will sleep standing up if he wants to!!

making eye contact with a 3 mo. old baby and younger is the death blow to getting them back to sleep. avoid eye contact at night or at nap time like the plague.

You're absolutely right alux. I tend to pull my t-shirt over his eyes but can't resist the urge to peek to see if he is awake or not - my own fault really!!

Great news! Keep us posted on how the day goes.