So I'm desperate, what would Gina say?!

[pamelat]

DS 26 weeks today

I tried to be relaxed re routine but it didnt work for either of us so implemented loose Gina routine

Up 7am - milk, porridge

Nap 9am - half an hour to an hour, up to him

Feed 1030 - milk plus solids

Nap 1215-215 ish, always wakes half way and needs settling, doesnt resettle. Now stay in for his naps in an attempt to fix night sleep but so far, no benefits from this, but out he only sleeps half an hour

Feed 230 milk, half or all, up to him

Now unlike Gina's "plan" he needs a 20/30 min nap at about 4 or 430 - basically falls to sleep in the car around here.

5pm ish solids

Bath etc , milk around 6pm

Bed 630, his choice, he is shattered by 6pm

Wakes 915pm ish, sometimes can settle him (dummy) or sometimes needs early dream feed

10pm ish dream feed

NOw until about 3 weeks ago he was waking at 2am for a (full) feed and 5am for dummy. This was bearable

Since then he has chicken pox and developed co-sleeping habit with us. What he now does it wakes hourly in our bed for dummy/cuddle> if we put him back in cot he screams and screams, have toddler that he has woken up

Sleeps in cot for day naps, sleeps in cot from 630-10pm, problems after 10pm

Any suggestions as am exhausted

I want to avoid controlled crying please, if I can but at this rate my relationship with DH and DD going wrong as I am too tired to be tolerant.

ps) big baby, 26 weeks and 22lbs.

First, cut out the 4pm nap.

I believe dream feed is supposed to be in the early months, with a view to eliminate quickly when it looks like baby goes long stretches without a feed in the night, so that when you cut it out he sleeps through. None of this applies to yours. In your place, I would stop the dream feed and let his feeds fall into a rhythm in the night.

hi, sorry but if he' all better now and over the chicken pox i think i would put back into his own cot and do a bit of control crying. He sounds like he's got into the habbit of waking since he was poorly. You don't have to leave him to howl the house down, just keep popping in to settle. Is the dummy a problem too, i remember ds2 used to wake lots as it kept falling out, so got one of those clips so he could put it back in himself. Good luck, routine would always go out of the window when they are sick but i did use control crying to get them back into it once i was sure they were better

Thanks all

Any pointers of how to avoid him falling to sleep at 4pm. I am making myself stay in for his lunch nap (with the rare exception) after reading "no cry sleep solution".

However, I have to occassionally go out and I collect DD from nursery 2 days at 4pm so I have to go, and he inevitably falls to sleep in the car.

I think the dummy is a huge problem too, am removing it from day time naps today, having to soothe in other ways but at least it may break the association? Not sure am strong enough to remove at night yet

I think not dream feeding is also a good idea. He wakes 9pm but can normally be re-settled with a dummy. Will try to not feed him, just worried as he has always drank the whole bottle. Even tried something called Hipp organic goodnight milk and he still woke 2am to feed regardless.

Right so no 4pm nap (suggestions on how to keep awake??) and no dream feed. It cant really get worse can it

Chicken pox spots still there but was 10 days ago now and all blistered over, but he does now have a cold .. always something.

We moved him to own room 2 weeks ago but its been worse since then really, although I think thats the coincidence of chicken pox

Nap 1215-215 ish, always wakes half way and needs settling, doesnt resettle. Now stay in for his naps in an attempt to fix night sleep but so far, no benefits from this, but out he only sleeps half an hour

Just a point - he is probably waking half way as he is hungry. Gina says (!) that you should offer a small milk feed at 10.30am and then the remaining feed (fresh, in a new bottle) just beofre going to sleep at 12.15pm. This may help him sleep for 2 hours at lunch and then he won't need the 4pm sleep?

With regards to the dreamfeed, I probably wouldn't go cold turkey - just eliminate 1-2oz every 3 days until it is gone.

I agree. You shouldn't be putting him to bed two hours after his meal. He is probably waking up early because he is hungry.

I would give milk at 7 am and then give the porridge before morning nap at 9 am. Give milk when he wakes up, then delay solids until lunchtime. Put him to bed right after lunch. You might see him sleep a solid two hours. Then I doubt that he would want to have another nap at 4 pm anyway.

No idea what Gina would say but I found dropping the dream feed didn't mean he woke more in the night but did mean one less feed for me/DH. In fact, somehow I think he often gets into a deeper sleep not being woken at 10.30/11 and will sometimes go till 4. This has only been since dropping the dream feed a month ago. Not always reliable by any means, but once in a while is good enough for me.

You also won't want to hear this but ditching the dummy at 4 months (appreciate your DC is older than this) did improve his night sleep. Again, no sleeping through miracle cure but much better. Short term pain though - lots of crying and patting and general misery but forgot about it after 2 or 3 nights.

Can't give any advice on naps since ours are hopeless and very seldom longer than 30 mins. Might switch solids timings around though, having read the responses to your post and see if that helps him go longer.

My DS is 8 months now, btw. Good luck!

Hi,
I disagree with some of the others.My DS is 6 months this week and he still needs an afternoon nap if he had a short sleep after lunch.If he does have a really long lunchtime nap then sometimes he can get through.
other than that I think your routine looks good,and similar to ours.

The main issue here is self settling I think.I would ditch the dummy if you can bear it!We did it a couple of months ago and things improved hugely.

Hi all, thank you

I didnt get chance to look on here again until this morning.

Last night was a big improvement

He woke at 850pm (earliest ever) and we thought we were in for a disasterous night. He stayed awake by himself in his cot for half an hour, fairly ok, then got upset so we went in (he has a cold), he was still awake at 10pm and getting more upset so we gave him his dream feed.

For half an hour he stayed upset and had to be taken in to bed, I know I know. Gina wouldnt be impressed but anything for sleep

He then slept 1030pm until 2am, milk feed, and slept until 630am!!

Now, was the good/better sleep because of dropping the 4pm nap (he was exhausted and very grumpy) or because he was up for almost 2 hours before he fell back to sleep????

We gave calpol in 10pm milk because of his cold and it would seem once this kicked in 20/30 mins later he was ok.

However, I dont want to give calpol as a sleep solution every night!!

I think I have 2 main problems

1. dummy

2. because he is waking in the night (too much) he is too tired to just stick to the 2 naps in the day?

I will try to save some of his milk for 1130ish, that bottle does take him a long long time to drink at 10/1030 but if I try to delay it he gets really miserable.