Check out my plan! Would love some opinions please, trying to sort out sleep for 6mnt old.

[holytoast]

Hi all,
Will keep this short, DD is 25 weeks, very happy, content with no underlying problems, but hasn't napped more than 30 mins at a time since she was about 8 weeks. She currently wakes around 3 - 5 times a night, and can be a nightmare to get to sleep. I have obsessed about it all day, read every sleep book in the library, and sat in the dark at 3am sobbing cause I am so tired! Have also just let it be at times to see if it sorts itself out - but no luck. I go back to work in 4 weeks, and am dreading the lack of sleep at night and worried she wont nap for a childminder. Sooooo, this is my plan...

Getting her up at 8am every morning, and in bed well before 8 so she is asleep by then(can take an hour or more for her to actually be asleep)

Regular naps - at 10am, 1pm and 4pm. going to try cot for some and buggy for others.

Tire her out with swimming, baby and toddler groups, fresh air etc most days.

At nght, do the same routine to get her to bed - feed, bath, massage, bed with music box and lots of patting etc. at the moment Dh is unable to settle her, she just screams and screams, because she wants the boob - hope feeding her before bath will help distance this from sleep so I can leave the house at some point before she is 18.

At night, not feed her to sleep, make sure she is off the boob while still sleepy. (have been doing this for a while, know she can self settle, have seen her do it!)

Try settling without a feed if it has been less than 2hrs since the last one, i.e cuddles, patting, rocking. this is the one I worry about, dont want to deny her food if she needs it, but sometimes she just isn't hungry, but snacking all night means she takes more then than in the morning.)

Try and tail off the rocking and patting to sleep as she seems ready, so eventually hopefully DH can settle her back to sleep.

Any thoughts? anyone care to join me for support, or to post their own plans to make things better (I know I have a snowball in hells chance of changing anything, but need to try something!)

Hi Sleepywombat - yes, it is a plan, no idea if its a good one!

I sympathise with you - with mine I think its a simple case of overtiredness and being really wired - cant imagine how I would cope with reflux too, well done for not going mad!

I dont have to wake her at 8 usually, she has always woken at this time, and in the first few weeks she would go back off to sleep until 10am sometimes! bliss! however, we co slept a lot then, but my back is in bits too, and I couldn't do it anymore, I need to move around at night, there just isn't the room, and I'm not prepared to banish DH over it, so we put her in her own room at the weekend. This morning I could hear her chuntering away from about 8am, just seems to be her default setting - handy because when I am back at work I intend to try feeding her when I get up at 6am, and settling her back to sleep with DH whilst I get ready, hopefully she will stay asleep in the car until I leave her at the childminders at 8 - thats the plan anyway!

The nap timings are just based on stuff I read on here, I tried to do tired signs, but she doesn't seem to do any really, apart from crying when she is overtired! So going to try it this way for a couple of days, if its not working might move them closer together. I suppose I hope she wil sleep for longer, thus meaning those times will be ok, if she is getting an hour or so sleep.

We shall see, will let you know how I get on...so far today she slept in her cot at 10am really well, and is currently up there chuntering away, going to see if she eventually gets herself to sleep.....oh and the not feeding before 2 hours - did it last night, nightmare until about 3am when I had to settle her maybe three times back off to seep without a feed, fed her then and she woken then at 6am, so not too bad. She does suck her thumb, which helps a lot. It also helps that I know she is able to self settle, has done it for two weeks at a time before. (she then seemed to forget how to) It is hard though, find myself second guessing, thinking well maybe she is hungry - thing is, even with feeds at 11, 3 and 6 am, she still didn't want much today, and woke up happy and smiling as ever - at no point was I leaving her to cry, so I will try angain tonight.

Sorry for the ramble, went on so much that in that time, she has gone totally quiet, and is asleep! result! 30 mins so far....

Let me know how you get on, I think having someone to try out ideas on helps.

Hi there - I would recommend an earlier bedtime. Contrary to what you might imagine, that does often help them to sleep for longer periods at night as they aren't overtired when they go down. We go for as close to 7pm as we can - it's normally between 7 and 7.30 when DD actually goes to sleep. We originally thought there wasn't much point in this as she was so active in the evenings, but looking back I think she was overtired then and was getting a bit hyper. I wish we'd cottoned on to the early bed thing earlier.

When are you thinking of starting solids? Or have you already started? That might satisfy her more than just milk and help with sleeps. We're doing baby led weaning, which is fab, but I found her sleep got dramatically better when I started giving her porridge with her evening (well, 5.30pm!) meal. Coincidentally, her first tooth came through at the same time, which may also have helped. Previous to that she was waking a minimum of 10 times a night. That dropped almost instantly to 3 or 4 wakings (that was when she was 7mo). Now she is 9mo and sleeps from 7.30pm to 6.30am. Bliss!

I strongly reccomend the 2,3,4 nap routine- it really works for 6 month olds- 2 hours after first wake- nap- 3 hours after 2nd nap, 4 hours after that bed (though sometimes would squeeze in another nap!)! My DD's bedtime is between 6.30 and 7 usually and she used to be a nightmare for sleep (I could have written your post!) then one day she just started self settling and a few months later (she is now 8months) she just started sleeping through a few nights a week. I know its probably not want you wanted to hear but I tried lots of things but in the end I actually think she worked it out by herself and whatever I was doing didnt make much difference (but the 2,3,4 routine helped me stay saner anyhoo!)

Thanks Bobby and Thandeka - I know what you mean about the earlier bed, but we struggle with this as DH isn't usually home until 7:30, and hardly sees her as it is - I am all up for an earlier bedtime, if sorting out a bit more sleep for her during the day doesn't help then I will definately consider it again. Weaning isn't going anywhere at the moment, shes had a bit of porridge and squashed some broccoli into her face, but thats about it. (also hope to try BLW) Hope it will help eventually though!
I have seen the 2,3,4 nap thingy mentioned, and it certainly seemed to go a bit like that today - problem is, with her 30 (sometimes 20) minute power naps, it kind of throws it off, she would be in bed by abut 5 I think!
However, first day seemed to go ok, I tired her out with all manner of things, and she slept for a total of three naps, altogether 2hrs 15mins! a record - and self settled just about for all of them (ok, last one she crashed out in the buggy, but still!)

onwards and upwards!

However mut have jinxed myself as just got back from my osteo appointment which means I am out of the house at bedtime once weekly, and DH said she screamed for over an hour when he tried to bath and put her to bed...I had filled her up with milk before I went out. Not good. She is currently hiccuping lying in her cot, quiet for now, but dont think she will sleep anytime soon. Aaargh!

Just dont know what to do about this - its not as if she doesn't know him, she just will not be settled by anyone else - as soon as I pick her up she stops crying immediately - so its not milk she wants - however I can't stop having to go out. Has anyone else got any advice for this? think I will keep sending DH up to settle her this evening, or its all for nothing. If he is able to get home early enough we might be able to do the same tomorrow and keep it up until she is happy (but he probably won't - grr - thats a whole other thread!)

This does not bode well for the childminder....

Yep, I agree with the 2,3,4 thing, she just wouldn't last. saying that though, she is now asleep, has been since 1, and slept at 10am too - 45 mins - the timings seem to be about right for her. Going to take her to a baby group this afternoon, in the hope she will fall asleep on the way home.

Actually, after the screamathon, it wasn't so bad, she fell asleep not long after I posted, and then stayed asleep until 11ish - fed her, then she was awake at 12, 2:45 (both times settled with me just cuddling and rocking a bit, and put down awake) then awake at 4am - DH got her and we brought her into bed, my back is in bits and I couldn't face getting up. However, this meant the all night milk bar was open for business...so got woken a few more times after. The settling her before trying milk, and being stubborn about not feeding until its been at least two hours, seems to be working. I still feel a bit bad, but she is getting lots of cuddles, and doesn't seem as unhappy about it at the time as the first couple of nights.
Still very happy and alert during the day, no more clingy or anything, so don't think its doing any harm.
She is also dropping off to sleep completely on her own during the day, which is amazing!

I have to go out tonight for a friends birthday (well, dont have to, but kind of need to!) so am going to start feed, bath, etc again, DH is going to be home in time to take over at the end - lets hope she doesn't scream - but he is very calm about it, so that helps. Not much else we can do, I can't put her to bed every night, it's just not practical! We also thought we needed to just keep going, it almost feels like it wouldn't be fair to confuse her by me doing it, he is going to try and be home early enough to do it the rest of this week. We shall see!

I have begun to think about the tiredness thing - DD is exactly like you describe - a 30 min catnap, still tired, but not enough to go back to sleep. I think by the end of the day, she is just so tired that us interfering, rocking her, any stimulation is just too much - I may try keeping the routine at night really short, and letting her just wind down in her cot while she is still alert - she will quite happily gum everything in sight for a time. Would this work with your DS? sort of make time in the cot to calm down and have a little play too? before he seems tired, IYSWIM? he might then begin to be relaxed, and then maybe drop off once he is sleepy enough? A week ago I would have said putting DD in her cot and then leaving her awake would have resulted in screaming, however bth naps today, thats what I did, although just once I had to turn her over (rolling and getting stuck on tummy, another thing disturbing the sleep!)

Anyway, will shut up now, need to get on and use my time wisely! (another cup of tea and a biscuit I think..) Good luck, let me know how it goes with your DS!

Right, am recording this for posterity, not being smug or anything, but DD went into her cot at 12:30, asleep by 1pm, and IS STILL ASLEEP! Going to have to wake her soon, I have to go out!

I cannot believe it, am wandering round in a daze, going from room to room, imagining what they would look like if I had 2 and a half hours everyday to clean and finish stuff....

Am so going to pay for this later on. She will no doubt be up all night.

Hi again - I found the same as Thandeka - my DD seemed to pretty much sort herself out and learned to self settle in the night by herself. But I do think the early bedtime helped. I can empathise with your reservations though - my DH gets home just in time to see DD come out of the bath and into bed. But she is so happy and well rested now that the compromise is worth it. DH makes up for it at the weekends.

Hope your little one is still sleeping better - isn't it weird when they do that. You have so much to do, and you have metal lists of jobs to get done if you ever get chance, then they have a good nap and you find yourself sitting there wondering what to do with your time! DD has just started having proper morning naps of at least 1 hour, it's great but I do keep sneaking upstairs to make sure she's ok...

Yep, done the checking thing, in fact the other night she slept from 2:30 until gone 7am! I wolke up and looked at the clock, leapt out of bed, and ran in to prod her...didn't wake her up thankfully!

It has been better, I haven't stuck to it as much as I would like, but then I knew things would always come along to get in the way - DH hasn't been home early enough to persevere with the bed times, and she had jabs, plus my back hurt, so couldn't get up anymore after 6am this morning, just co-slept. That said, today, she has had two long naps, and hour and 2 hours this lunchtime, plus is having a little sleep now, as she tired herself out trying to crawl! So maybe we are on the right track, will just have to keep trying to stick to it.

It does seem to be working, and at night she is much happier to be laid back in the cot partially awake, and gurgle to herself until she goes back to sleep. It's still hit and miss at bed time, and a nightmare if DH does it, but he is going to spend lots more time with her this weekend and try again, she did cry for less time the second attempt.

I think we do need to compromise with the bed time though, DH has said he will make it home by 7 twice a week so he can put her to bed, and then on fridays I will collect him so he sees her from 5, currently he cycles home and takes forever. So we are getting there!

Will post an update in a few days just in case anyone is interested in my ramblings about how it's going!

Hi Holytoast and SleepyWombat and others

Can I join in? DD2 is also 25 weeks and another daytime catnapper and nighttime sleep-pest, waking up constantly. We co-sleep, less by my choice than by necessity as I need some rest to be able to run around after DD1 in the daytime. I like the sound of the 2-3-4 rule but DD2 never naps for longer than 30 mins unless I nap with her (which I can't usually as I have DD1, who doesn't nap). I also have the clingy baby who won't be settled by DH (whereas DD1, although also a sleep-nightmare, would be).

No suggestions, let alone solutions, but just to say I am reading with interest and empathy...

Hi Chocoholica - course you can join in! She does sound like my DD, I wouldn't have thought she could sleep for more than 30mins at a time, but I have been putting her down awake for naps in her cot, at the same(ish) times each day, and for the most part, she has slept, mostly 45mins, but some days I have had 2, even 3hrs out of her. Evenings are still hard, been trying to get her to bed earlier, which helps, but she still hates DH doing the bedtime routine. She just started with the childminder, and has slept both days she was there, which is pretty amazing, didn't expect her to. During the night we generally get a waking at 11 - wich is just before I go to bed, then 3amish, then sometimes one more, but mostly that takes her through till 6ish, then I can bring her into bed for a bit. the days when it is worse, its because she hasn't slept enough during the day I think. It's hard keeping it up though, but when I am back at work in a way it will be easier, as the routine has to be there.
I hope you get some respite, things are improving for us, but I think DD will never be one of those babies who just sleeps all the time!