Unfounded allegations

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

With the news about Russell Brand and David Walliams at the top of people's minds, it is perhaps quite natural that people want to talk about these cases, and to talk about the wider culture, especially within the entertainment industry, which has seemingly allowed these men to hide in plain sight while engaging in terrible and sometimes criminal behaviour. This is of course a valid and important discussion.

But inspired by this, we now seem to have unfounded allegations popping up all over the site against other celebrities. It is in danger of becoming a witch hunt and MNHQ really needs to take action to nip this in the bud.

If anyone has any evidence of actual wrongdoing by any celebrity (or indeed by anyone), then please, please go to the police and report your concerns.

If it's just a gut feeling that someone feels a bit sleazy or gives you the ick, please remember that they are an actual human being that does not deserve to have allegations thrown at them on the basis of gut feelings alone.

Pointing the finger at anyone and everyone without any actual evidence trivialises the problem and undermines the testimony of women who have genuinely experienced harm.

Can everyone please stop speculating?

Bollocks. Six months ago people like you were wittering on about “poor Russell Brand” and all those nasty women making up stories about him 🙄🙄.

It doesn’t “do women a huge disservice” at all. Women like you who think men can do no wrong do women a huge disservice

But random accusations don’t help people to be taken seriously

Ah, so it's the fault of women that he hid in plain sight? I suppose the same goes for Jimmy Saville and all the rest? Not the TV executives who covered for them whilst creaming in the money they were making. Or the "old boys club" who for years have made sure that nobody rocks their vile misogynistic boat. Or even the whole establishment that has always put men centre stage whilst very effectively silencing women. Glad you've put me straight on that one.

Your post wasn't aimed at me, but I can assure you that I certainly wasn't defending RB or suggesting that anyone was making allegations up.

But I think there is a difference between women stating that a particular individual has raped or assaulted them and women stating that someone must be a wrong'un because he gives them the ick.

I will support any woman who makes allegations against her perpetrator, and indeed from anyone who has actually witnessed predatory behaviour. I don't think it's helpful to blur the boundaries between such accounts and unsubstantiated rumours from people who have never met the individual concerned.

Most of the things I've seen posted on the other threads are either statement of fact e.g. there was a 10 year age gap and she was 16, or are people quoting stuff that's in the public domain e.g. videos of misogynist 'jokes' made by people in the public eye.

If someone like Jonathan Ross was happy to make jokes about David Walliams taking home 15 year olds then are we in the wrong to quote him doing so?

No, but it’s been used to insinuate he knew, based on info now available. But none of these celebs were present when he approached these girls. And Ross didn’t even write the joke.

One was pulled, email to say it didn’t break guidelines and now pulled again.

Also back when he got with his wife, it was hugely common and not frowned upon for 16 year old girls to go out with men this age, I did it myself and no one thought anything of it,

Good. They should all be pulled and MN should be forwarding the names of all those posters who definitely know stuff for a fact they absolutely don't to the police to assist with their on-going enquiries.

If words come out of your mouth people rightly assume they are your words or at least that you believe them.

Ross wasn't a powerless person starting out trying to please. He was in a position where he called the shots and was free to speak the truth.

You believe that of comedians?

Those threads should undoubtedly be pulled and those of us who have tried to get posters to think about what they're posting have been accused of defending abusers.

Very disappointed in MNHQ leaving them standing, frankly. We're not talking about genuine concerns, just people throwing out a name saying "who's next?" to generate speculation.

Apparently men in large age gap relationships are dodgy but if you mention older women with much younger partners they ignore that.

It was not and never has been hugely common.
You are deluding yourself that people ever thought nothing of a 16 year old dating a 26 year old.

You don’t need to be so aggressive, I can only say it was in my circles, maybe not yours.

Actually I think the PP was right. I knew many 16/17/18 yos who were dating much older men in the 80s and 90s

Agree. I have absolutely fuck all interest in defending any sexual predators. I am just not comfortable with the idle speculation without any evidence. It just trivialises the whole thing imo.

He didn't need to say it if he disagreed with it.

certainly in the 80s yes,

Well the stats don't back that up but your circle is your circle.

It wasn’t a debate. He wasn’t doing a value judgement, he was cracking a joke that had been written for him,

What stats, what are you talking about,

Sorry but as I posted on one of those threads, in the early 90s at my secondary school lots of 16/17 year olds were dating - and absolutely sleeping with - guys in their mid 20s. Some were 15. And their mothers almost always KNEW even if the fathers didn't.

Perhaps he should have done a value judgement.

A joke about a grown man, his friend, taking home a 15 year old girl?

Why is that funny?

The Stephen Fry thread which was being looked at has now reappeared with not so much as a warning from MNHQ.

I wonder if I started a thread naming a member of MNHQ staff and suggested they ought to be investigated as a potential sexual abuser it would be left up? I suspect not.

I wonder what their mother's thought?