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Original poster

Hey MNHQ. Would it be possible to have a discussion about how SN issues/threads are handled on the main boards.

12 replies

Pagwatch · 12/06/2016 11:38

I know you are fire fighting a bit and I'm not trying to stir things up.

I just think that there are endless threads that require you to get involved and try to (for the sake of a better word) mediate between pissed of posters with no real experience of SN/disability and pissed off member of the SN/disability community.

I think you try really really hard to be fair and even handed. It's an understandable response but I have growing doubts about it.
There have been half a dozen threads recently where posters I recognise as living with SN/disability issues deal with a continuous stream of posts from any random who pops up on a thread making the same stupid, ill informed or frankly goady post.
It's like swimming through a tidal wave of shit.
Then, as posters get increasingly exasperated by each arriving poster saying 'well I'm not putting my buggy away if my baby is asleep' or 'why can't I use the disabled toilet if it's empty' or 'but people with SN can be violent. I know of stabbing someone and attacks all the time' they get rude and the thread descends into eurrgh.

I'm still reading constant posts where anyone affected by disability is berated if they are angry, the message being 'be nice, be grateful or we don't have to be fair'

It seems to me that the status quo of 'fairness' is simply unfair.
Posters already dealing with immense difficulty shouldn't be forced to defend themselves against every person who turns up and says unpleasant things under the umbrella of debate. You said a long time ago it was not our responsibility to educate but the reality is that, with no palpable support from you guys, we are endlessly having to educate.

I am not pretending to have the answer but is it possible to contemplate methods by which you could actually say to posters saying 'if someone in a wheelchair can't use their space because I'm not putting my buggy away' that their comments are wrong and not in the spirit of the site?

You link to the This Is My Child campaign but the posters who are the problem won't care and won't read it.

I don't know - I just wonder if you could think about this.
Sometimes there are not two sides to a debate because only one side is directly affected, exhausted, distressed and having their lives and their children's lives made harder.

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MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 12/06/2016 21:28

Hi all,

It's been a very busy day today and i'm not on top of this thread but I will be come tomorrow.

We will happily have a discussion about all of the issues raised on this thread in the office tomorrow.

We have been talking about adults with SN in the office and also caring for adults with SN and we have a guest post coming from SandyMumsnet who has a DS, Max, who is 23 and has DS. Sandy talks about the process of obtaining Deputyship from the Court of Protection which I know came as a shock to her but i'll leave that there as I am no expert and her GP will be going up soon.

We are very keen to host more content surrounding adult children with SN and we will be asking for your input when the time comes.

As for being more forthright on threads and not just linking to TIMC, we will have a think and a discussion in the office about that this week and feedback to you.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 13/06/2016 16:29

Here you go all

MNHQ

PresidentOliviaMumsnet · 14/06/2016 19:51

@MiffleTheIntrovert

This thread was started two days ago and there has been very very little input or response from MNHQ (although they did a great deletion message yday on the teacher thread).

There's mention upthread of fire fighting - and we're at it again today due to a tech issue we are running behind on reports. Rest assured this is absolutely on our agenda, and our apols for any tardiness
Thx

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 18/06/2016 11:31

Hi all,

Apologies for the long wait, we have been chatting about this this week in the office.

We all feel strongly about the topics raised in this thread. There is a fine balance to meet but we will try our best to do just that. It will take time and we ask for your help by reporting and stepping away as much as you can please.

We will try and put up a deletion message that reflects the reasons for deletion on a thread. We hope to have more content to link to and we will be more proactive about banning repeat offenders, more on a two strike than a three strike system including a mail to explain why we have banned or a warning mail to spelling out why their post was removed.

We do need your help with the report button, please do not assume that a post has been reported and we will get to it as quickly as we can.

These are all things we are working on and will continue to work on over time. There is no overnight quick fix but we will certainly try our best to combat them and (apologies to say it) help to educate those who are ignorant or naive to the issues that many of you face.

We will be as proactive as we can be but we do need to be fair so please avoid the personal attacks and troll hunting and we will try our best to mail folks to help to explain to them why their post was removed.

We hope that this action will help but it will take time.

Please know that we are very keen to help on this one and we hope you notice a slight shift over time.

Thanks everyone for your feedback, it's been incredibly insightful and interesting to read and we hope there are many lurkers here who have learned a thing or two too ignoring the twats who have been deleted

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 18/06/2016 17:27

@Baconyum

Most of that response is good and thanks for that Rebecca.

But wrt 'we'll deal with it as soon as possible' I have noticed some posts that have been reported and I KNOW they've been reported by more than one person are left to stand for ages over a day sometimes.

The response almost every time I confront this issue is 'we were so busy that day...'

Why aren't MNHQ hiring more staff?

We actually have but recruitment takes a while. There is someone new starting in July and I'm interviewing on Monday.

The difficulty that we have is that no two days are the same. We may normally be quiet mid-week and therefore have less staff on and there could be an influx, we may also have more staff on a Friday night and it's quiet.

We spent a while looking at the stats over the past year and have tried to combat this but it's still a work in process.

We know when something horrible is reported, you'd like us to see it and deal with it immediately, but there may well be other things happening that we are dealing with and we'll get to the next report as quickly as possible.

We do try our best to listen to and address all issues that are raised, sometimes we will be waiting for reports and others we will be wading through treacle and there is only so much we can do to anticipate it.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 18/06/2016 19:52

@BeyondTellsEveryoneRealFacts

Looking at stats to detemine when you need staff? What, so youre not on call by some sort of batsignal system then? Grin

I long for a Batphone, but alas, no Sad

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 19/06/2016 17:40

Apologies all for the cock up today, badly timed big mistake and we can only apologise. It was a mistake on our part and we reinstated the thread and apologised as quickly as possible but I wanted to pop on here and apologise too.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/06/2016 22:59

Hi all,

We have just caught up with this thread and it does make for an upsetting read and we know you are tired of hearing it but we do apologise.

We are making changes behind the scenes slowly, we have mailed folks about disablist posts and deleted threads with a deletion message indicating that it was removed for disablist comments.

At the moment, when we delete a post the message is always 'Deleted for breaking talk guidelines' it is a standard message and we are unable to edit it at the moment but it is something we will look to do in the future.

Some of the posts here really do point some anger and hatred towards MNHQ and that is incredibly upsetting for all of us. We never want to cause upset and we work hard to try and keep the boards a nice place to be. We apologise that this is not the case and that you don't feel listened to.

In all honesty, we have had an incredible amount of reports over the past few days about various threads across the site and we are thin on the ground with staff as we go through the recruitment process. None of this should be your issue at all but I felt we needed to explain why things are taking longer to deal with. We are not intentionally ignoring anyone, we will and do deal with the issues raised.

Please do bear with us, we will deal with things and we will get back to you, although it may not be a personal response every time.

As we have previously said, we do also have to remove posts that break our guidelines in other ways too, so we ask you to not troll hunt or personally attack. We know it's tricky when things get heated and you feel attacked but it means less time for us to deal with folks who post disablist posts.

The very last thing we want is to make anyone's lives harder or to upset anyone. Apologies again, we will have a look at the new thread now.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/06/2016 23:09

@FlouncyMcFlounceFace

Sorry massive cross post. That last post of mine was to Samcro

And it's an excellent post too Flouncy Thanks

MNHQ

PresidentOliviaMumsnet · 23/06/2016 10:47

@Akire

If your post gets deleted do you get a message? Or can you stil be in blissful ignorance?

No. But if we have too many reports about a particular poster we will get in touch with them before we wield the ban hammer.
HTH

MNHQ

PresidentOliviaMumsnet · 23/06/2016 10:57

@MiffleTheIntrovert

I can't think of a situation where it would be OK for people to start threads or post about why legal rights acquired by a minority group should be disallowed and all the associated whataboutery. Yet this is allowed on MN when it's the legal rights of disabled people. Another issue is the blatant and acknowledged name changing to post this - surely this proves the poster knows it's inflammatory (and by inflammatory I mean goady fuckery).

On the disabled changing room thread MN said they won't ever stifle debate (I think this was the wording) but at what point does debate become hate speech at the worst and goady fuckery at best?

I agree it's so disheartening to keep reading "sorry but we are busy" and leaving disablist posts up whilst silencing those protesting about disablist posts (exactly what happened on the changing room thread). There is so much of it around at the moment (as MN acknowledge) that it's pretty obvious some people have a disablist agenda. Yet no action is being taken by MNHQ, or the action is slow or the action is wrong.

If I name changed to start a thread (for example) saying that Jews have a synagogue on my road and I parked in their car park to go to the shops and got shouted at, AIBU, and encouraged posters to share tales of the Jew brigade having chips on their shoulders and they should be grateful to be allowed a synagogue but they shouldn't expect special treatment and just because they're a Jew doesn't mean they're not a cunt and maybe you should have just punched them or told them to fuck off...would that be deleted?

(PS Apologies as I know that's awful reading that back but this is exactly how it feels, reading that thread (amongst others) as a disabled person makes me feel exactly how I feel when I see posts saying Jews are evil and plotting to take over the world. As was actually said on that Freemen thread - and swiftly deleted incidentally).

MNHQ need to take action to address this issue. At the moment this outweighs the "good parts" of MN for me and it doesn't feel like a place I feel welcome.

Please can we direct you to Rebecca's post of last night at 22:59:32
Thanks

MNHQ

IonaMumsnet · 24/06/2016 22:30

Hi Beyond and others. We're so sorry - we're not ignoring you, we promise. It really has been a hell of a day here, as you can imagine. Thanks for getting back to us about that post. On reflection, we agree that though we're sure no offence was meant, the post was disablist and we could see how upsetting it would sound to someone who has ASD themselves or lives with someone who does, so we've deleted it. Thank you to everyone who reported. Hope you all have a lovely evening.

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