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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MN hq, In light of recent postings on various parts of the site, can we please have an all-round discussion around conduct, authenticity and where we, the users stand?

252 replies

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 14:14

It’s fairly evident that there has been an increased influx of threads perceived not to be genuine of late. It has got to a point where people are hiding certain sections of the boards, sections which should be there to offer support but which are actually becoming a bit of a breeding ground for highly emotive threads which, after a day or two, turn out not to be genuine and then disappear only to be replaced by another one of the same type.

The problem with this is that there seem to be more “what happened to x thread?” posts on those boards now than threads themselves, which has totally taken away the supportive element to certain parts of the site.

This has come to a bit of a head last night because an extremely sensitive thread has been closed due to doubts about its authenticity, but the thread itself is still there for anyone to see, but subsequent discussion about the thread in question has been deleted due to it being “a taat.”

I appreciate that it’s not always possible to know whether a thread is genuine and that sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction.

I also appreciate that we as grown adults are responsible for our own reactions to what we read online and that we should never share more than we can afford to lose.

But in the real world you know that it’s not always that simple. Because people do read threads and do identify with them on a personal level, or empathise with an op, and feel the need to offer support. And when it turns out those threads are not genuine, people feel as if they have needlessly offered of themselves to support someone whose situation was never real.

My personal view is that certain threads shouldn’t be allowed to stand regardless. Threads such as suicide ones where posters are neither emotionally equipped or professionally qualified to deal with someone on the end of a keyboard. There are numerous support sources out there for people with such severe mh issues that they feel their only hope is suicide. MN is IMO not nor should it be considered to be one of them.

The reality is that we are a parenting forum. Many parents will go through other issues such as mh issues, but in truth mn’ers cannot be all things to all people, and removing a suicide thread does not mean that mn is an unsupportive environment, it simply means that mn is not equipped to deal with a suicidal poster and feels that they would benefit from professional help. In addition to this, removing such a thread protects those posters who have either had similar thoughts, or have personal experience of suicide, and at the same time reduces the types of topics which people can post vampiric threads about.

Added to that, if a thread is considered to not be genuine and is deleted, removing discussion of it will not take away the thought of it, and the more threads are deleted with discussion being stifled, the more resentful posters will become, and the less likely to post on discussion threads.

People want to talk about threads. Not least because most people are here because they enjoy being here, and feel they offer something when posting in support. If you take that away from people by stifling discussion (however unpalatable some of that discussion is), people will start to go elsewhere, or simply not post anywhere.

In addition, if you refuse to discuss suspected troll threads, leave emotive but locked threads on the boards, people will just continue their increased belief that there are more trolls than regulars and will see mn as a non worthwhile place to post. A fantacist’s corner, as it were. Is that really how you want mn to be perceived? Because atm it seems like it is a novel writer’s paradise on relationships with a touch of bitching thrown in for good measure on ibu.

OP posts:
MiddletonPink · 22/10/2014 09:26

I think we should stop responding the suicide note type threads in all honesty. Report and leave it.

It seems that the majority are fake. They are a trigger for many and turn people sceptical when it turns out to be a lie.

LineRunner · 22/10/2014 09:28

Middleton, thanks for the kind word. Just that makes a difference!

Arkham, I didn't know all this had been mooted and suggested before. Interesting.

LEMmingaround · 22/10/2014 09:55

I hope things pick up soon line runner.

It is interesting about suicide notes etc. Ive been "suicidal". In inverted commas because i was scared i would do it rather than wanting to. If that makes sense. I found it hard to get help in rl. In the end it took for my dp to take me to the dr and say "if you don't help her she is going to hurt herself or somebody else" it very much feels like wtf do i have to do to get the support i need? Cut my wrists? So someone will help me? Im not in that place now thank God but i have been. That isn't attention seeking. Thats desperate and scared.

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/10/2014 10:15

Morning all,

Many thanks for your feedback. We are reading it all and we will keep you posted when we have spoken to the Samaritans.

And Maryz we are hearing you...

"I keep saying this - there is a difference between "I'm feeling suicidal, come and hold my hand" and "I'm just about to kill myself, hold my hand while I die".

A massive difference."

ScreamingSmegs · 22/10/2014 10:19

Sorry I was so short yesterday, was in total agreement with WannaBe but found it very difficult to articulate why and how I felt as I did, mainly because it was quite painful.

I struggled a lot in my early teens. What attempts I made were feeble at best but the intent was there. In the decades since I have been mostly happy and stable, but the memories I have of that time are still raw. Because of this I will always try to help if I see another person in that kind of pain, in RL or online.

I hid that thread because I read that very first post and it did not ring true. It felt like someone enjoying the drama. It upset the hell out of me and brought back horrible memories. Apparently it only got worse. It's sickening that so many people shared their stories and pain to help someone who probably wasn't genuine.

I feel bad saying that MN is not a place for threads like that, as it could be a lifeline for some people. However I think that there should be a firm policy on how the site responds, in a way that is best for all posting and reading. We don't seem to have that now, or if we do it doesn't seem to be consistent.

I'm sorry this post is garbled, I can't use that word today for some reason, I normally can. Hope you can make sense of this.

ScreamingSmegs · 22/10/2014 10:20

Have re-read my post and feel a lot better, because it looks like the biggest pile of pretentious crap Grin.

Thank god I never decided to go for that career as a writer.

nethunsreject · 22/10/2014 11:11

See, for me, it's kind of the opposite. When I came across that thread the other night, it was fairly far on and it looked to me like it was as dodgy as... HOWEVER, the posts that some people had written, telling their own stories, I found very touching. So, even though posters may feel tha their posts were pointless or they were taken advantage of, well, I'd like to say thank you to them. As someone who is still very low, it was genuinely heartening to read them. So thank you. The op may have been a troll, but as a lurker, the genuine posts were good to read (to me anyway).

I'd like to say too that some people's perceptions of how to get help when you're in distress/ despair are woefully naïve. It has taken me months to access help, despite being actively suicidal and in severe distress and having a history of suicidal intention. THe mental health board on here really helped me, especially when I was unable to even bring myself to speak.

SpanielofDoom · 22/10/2014 11:21

wooooosual I've only just got back online, but that thread I was talking about yesterday has been deleted.

SpanielofDoom · 22/10/2014 11:22

oops major bolding fail there !

Stupidhead · 22/10/2014 11:23

Oh god is this about the teenager? I was an early poster on it and was wondering what happened. I hope that if she/he was trolling then at least the replies might have helped someone in a similar (genuine) situation.

KlokkenVin · 22/10/2014 11:32

I agree with nethunsreject. there was a big thread years ago about a woman whose partner locked the door so she couldn't leave when he went out. she may have been lying but there were a lot of other stories on the thread that were shared and posters were bonding over that. I found the obsession with truth more upsetting. So, the OP had lied. The other 50 people on the thread had not.

I think deleting threads only fans the need to discuss. so stop doing it

KlokkenVin · 22/10/2014 11:40

ps, and agreeing again with the second half of your post this time! It can take a while for a mindset to shift positively so that you can acknowledge what the real issue is, and to be brave enough to face change.

MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs · 22/10/2014 11:55

Been directed here from another thread.

Glad to see HQ are trying to sort things, but I don't think things will change.

Still the same requests not to call 'troll' and report threads.

Its not going to stop threads and trolls from posting though is it ? Sad

theonlygothinthevillage · 22/10/2014 12:00

Stopping name changes or making them require approval would help too.

I disagree here. People often don't want to be identified with previous postings, and banning name changes would, I think, encourage people to open multiple accounts, making them even more difficult to track.

LilAnnieAmphetamine · 22/10/2014 12:03

Well calling troll certainly keeps things visible although the problem of incorrect accusations remains.

The bigger issue is why Mumsnet thinks it is a special case - it is an online organisation that encourages people with MH issues to post and use the site whilst behaving irresponsibly, offering them no duty of care bar one 'we cannot guarantee the quals' disclaimer.

Other organisations manage to adhere to the reporting and print code of conduct w/ regards to suicide. They also draw up their own guidelines and respect the delicacy of this subject. I have been talking about this for years and STILL nothing has been done.

Mumsnet continually reacts after the fact and seems unable to preempt problems.. Time to ditch that reactive, 'organic' philosophy now- it is not working.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn · 22/10/2014 12:15

I don't think that anyone with MH issues is posting here expecting a duty of care from HQ any more than someone with physical health issues do.

The site is what it is. Peer support and sympathy.

LilAnnieAmphetamine · 22/10/2014 12:24

Keema

What people expect and what should be adhered to, like pretty much all other reputable sites are two different things. People don't expect a duty of care from newspapers but they have signed up to it.

And MN routinely offers guidance, info and features on mental health issues so its image as a place to go to for MH support is more than tacit.

And there is NO guarantee of support and sympathy here- that is the other variable that cannot be controlled. That first time a troll or plain wicked person posts something unsympathetic to a mentally unwell person and somebody harms themselves as a result, well.....

LilAnnieAmphetamine · 22/10/2014 12:25

What I should have said is that just because people don't expect a duty of care, doesn't mean that MN shouldn't behave as if it didn't have one. Nothing to do with the legalities- it is common decency.

LilAnnieAmphetamine · 22/10/2014 12:26

Should not shouldn't

MiddletonPink · 22/10/2014 12:48

How many of the very dramatic threads have been real I wonder.
Over the years there have been hundreds.

It seems like from memory a lot were trolls.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 22/10/2014 12:53

Keema, I'm sure you're right, I don't think for a second people with MH issues/suicidal thoughts post expecting MN or MNers to do something.

The eleventy billion trolls, however, do. They want it, they expect it, and when they get it, they sit back and laugh. And that's what has to be stopped.

LilAnnieAmphetamine · 22/10/2014 12:57

Drank

Sometimes suicidal ideation does involve a wish for somebody to do something though. It may not be a conscious thought or it might be half formed or nebulous but nonetheless, there is a hope that by expressing the desire to die, something might change for them.

And taking that to a place like this is very risky. Especially with trolls around.

SignYourNameInBrownAndFlame · 22/10/2014 13:47

There is a fairly comprehensive, well thought out workable and sensitive policy here, from another site:

www.managingcommunities.com/2009/06/22/dealing-with-suicide-on-your-online-community-or-forums-how-you-can-help-and-protect-everyone/

It's an American site but could easily be adapted for the UK. There are even examples of contact templates which could be modified to make them MN-appropriate.

I found that in five minutes of googling and could probably amend it to have a draft copy ready to go in an hour tops. How much longer are MNHQ going to prevaricate while the emotional trolls vampires continue to bleed the site dry of its goodwill and cause the true posters to turn away?

If the consultation with the Samaritans is starting with a blank sheet of paper, we could still be discussing it this time next year. Resources are out there. Other sites use them. Other sites have policies relating to suicide threats and expressed suicidal ideation. Use those resources already in existence rather than reinventing the wheel. In many ways MN is special but in others, it isn't. Produce a draft based on the tried-and-tested, then review it, tweak it, rubber-stamp it and implement it.

Maryz · 22/10/2014 14:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz · 22/10/2014 14:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.