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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MN hq, In light of recent postings on various parts of the site, can we please have an all-round discussion around conduct, authenticity and where we, the users stand?

252 replies

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 14:14

It’s fairly evident that there has been an increased influx of threads perceived not to be genuine of late. It has got to a point where people are hiding certain sections of the boards, sections which should be there to offer support but which are actually becoming a bit of a breeding ground for highly emotive threads which, after a day or two, turn out not to be genuine and then disappear only to be replaced by another one of the same type.

The problem with this is that there seem to be more “what happened to x thread?” posts on those boards now than threads themselves, which has totally taken away the supportive element to certain parts of the site.

This has come to a bit of a head last night because an extremely sensitive thread has been closed due to doubts about its authenticity, but the thread itself is still there for anyone to see, but subsequent discussion about the thread in question has been deleted due to it being “a taat.”

I appreciate that it’s not always possible to know whether a thread is genuine and that sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction.

I also appreciate that we as grown adults are responsible for our own reactions to what we read online and that we should never share more than we can afford to lose.

But in the real world you know that it’s not always that simple. Because people do read threads and do identify with them on a personal level, or empathise with an op, and feel the need to offer support. And when it turns out those threads are not genuine, people feel as if they have needlessly offered of themselves to support someone whose situation was never real.

My personal view is that certain threads shouldn’t be allowed to stand regardless. Threads such as suicide ones where posters are neither emotionally equipped or professionally qualified to deal with someone on the end of a keyboard. There are numerous support sources out there for people with such severe mh issues that they feel their only hope is suicide. MN is IMO not nor should it be considered to be one of them.

The reality is that we are a parenting forum. Many parents will go through other issues such as mh issues, but in truth mn’ers cannot be all things to all people, and removing a suicide thread does not mean that mn is an unsupportive environment, it simply means that mn is not equipped to deal with a suicidal poster and feels that they would benefit from professional help. In addition to this, removing such a thread protects those posters who have either had similar thoughts, or have personal experience of suicide, and at the same time reduces the types of topics which people can post vampiric threads about.

Added to that, if a thread is considered to not be genuine and is deleted, removing discussion of it will not take away the thought of it, and the more threads are deleted with discussion being stifled, the more resentful posters will become, and the less likely to post on discussion threads.

People want to talk about threads. Not least because most people are here because they enjoy being here, and feel they offer something when posting in support. If you take that away from people by stifling discussion (however unpalatable some of that discussion is), people will start to go elsewhere, or simply not post anywhere.

In addition, if you refuse to discuss suspected troll threads, leave emotive but locked threads on the boards, people will just continue their increased belief that there are more trolls than regulars and will see mn as a non worthwhile place to post. A fantacist’s corner, as it were. Is that really how you want mn to be perceived? Because atm it seems like it is a novel writer’s paradise on relationships with a touch of bitching thrown in for good measure on ibu.

OP posts:
BOFster · 21/10/2014 16:27

I also think that constantly demanding that MNHQ come up with a technical or bureaucratic solution to issues when it is so often a Problem In Chair situation is pointless. It reminds me of Life Of Brian and all the "What shall we do, O Lord?" and "But HOW shall we fuck off, O Lord?" questions.

Just do your best to stay within the guidelines, and try not to be a dick.

northernlurker · 21/10/2014 16:33

I disagree that removing threads with a specific threat about suicide within them would remove support from vulnerable people. This is the wrong site for those people to get that support. RL input is needed and if people can divert themselves from that because they can post on mumsnet then we are putting those people in more danger of harm, not less.

Greythorne · 21/10/2014 16:35

I hate to be negative because I know a lot of posters were trying to be very supportive, but the truth is that the dozens and dozens of threads all reading 'think of your babies, they need you, don't to this to your babies' are very wide of the mark.

Someone who is genuinely suicidal is so far from thinking they have anything to offer their babies, they actually feel their babies (and husband and family and friends) would be better off without them.

I just don't get the point of everyone posting the same, totally logical thing to a person who is experiencing the despair and illogicality (not a word) of suicide as if it will make a bleeding but of difference.

'Oh, 19 people have reminded her about her babies, but if I just post saying your babies need you too she will pit away the pills and feel better'.

Speaking from bitter experience.

BerylStreep · 21/10/2014 16:39

I have said it before, and I will say it again, I think MN needs to indicate 'date joined' even if posters name change.

I actually think I am going to flounce for a bit (not that anyone will notice, I'm sure) due to all the trolls. I just can't be bothered.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn · 21/10/2014 16:39

How is it putting them in more danger? Getting RL support isn't that easy sometimes, particularly in the middle of the night. Sure, you can call Samaritans, if you can actually face picking up the phone and being able to get the words out. If you're known to MH services you may have access to the crisis team, which is often one person sat in an office 30 miles away covering two regions.

Having somewhere, anywhere familiar to post isn't a hinderance to RL support.

I think BOF has hit the nail on the head. Hide, report and don't engage if you don't think it's real and use your common sense.

TunipTheUnconquerable · 21/10/2014 16:39

What BoF said.

Some threads are false. We all know that. But 99.99%? No way.

If you are worried about a thread you can either not post or post calmly and without getting sucked in, for the benefit of anybody that might be in that position.

theonlygothinthevillage · 21/10/2014 16:45

I have said it before, and I will say it again, I think MN needs to indicate 'date joined' even if posters name change.

This seems like an eminently sensible solution to me. Actually the only sensible solution.

Thurlow · 21/10/2014 16:46

Who is to say MN is the wrong place for posters to get support?

No, it's not full of MH professionals. But sadly there isn't a big forum full of MH professionals waiting to respond.

If you don't like it, report and ignore. The idea that we should ban things because we personally don't like them is ridiculously proscriptive.

meditrina · 21/10/2014 16:47

"Sure, you can call Samaritans, if you can actually face picking up the phone and being able to get the words out."

Or contact via [email protected]

One key difference between the support there and that on a huge public website being that the person who is reading and respond has been trained, and is themselves supported.

northernlurker · 21/10/2014 16:47

Keema - I'm very glad that your thread here was helpful to you. The majority of people though, are best served by RL help and it is there in the middle of the night - through Samaritans, through friends and relatives, through the emergency services. Posting here only serves to shrink the window through which help can be got. This is an internet forum. Its not 'real' enough and 'real' is what's needed. If posters rely on the replies they get instead of seeking an RL source - well it's Not Good.

theonlygothinthevillage · 21/10/2014 16:48

Also, as someone who was falsely suspected of trollery during quite a desperate time of my life, I would urge people to hit 'report' rather than voicing their suspicions on the thread. Not being believed is actually incredibly upsetting to people who have spent maybe a couple of days working up courage to post.

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 16:49

There is a vast difference between writing that you have suicidal thoughts and posters urging you to seek some professional help, and writing a note on the boards saying goodbye to everyone because tonight you are going to kill yourself.

And mn should never, ever be considered anyone's only support, because in reality mn itself is a website, a brand, and while you may find support here from people with whom you share a common bond, in someone's darkest hour, there couldn't ever be any guarantee that the people you ordinarily identify with would be there to support you. Support for suicide should be gained from professionals - a suicide thread should never be left for "updates" (which lets face it if the op is genuine won't be forthcoming). Mn hq have relevant contact details for posters, if a poster is posting a suicide note on the boards then it should be deleted with an email sent to the op with relevant support service contact details.

That's all anyone on here can do.

OP posts:
meditrina · 21/10/2014 16:50

"I have said it before, and I will say it again, I think MN needs to indicate 'date joined' even if posters name change.

"This seems like an eminently sensible solution to me. Actually the only sensible solution."

I disagree. It's fine if you're one of a horde who joined during one of the influxes when MN was in the news ITSWIM. But it could 'out' name changes if your date is not common, and be horrible for those who had changed for sensitive reasons.

theonlygothinthevillage · 21/10/2014 16:50

Actually, posting on MN can give you support you don't get from the Samaritans, in that it enables to to canvass a large amount of knee jerk reactions. Sometimes what people want is a bit of perspective, and MN is great for that.

LemonDrizzleTwunt · 21/10/2014 16:53

I am quite new here, but I'd like to weigh in.

I can totally understand that MNHQ is concerned about leaving the threads up, and that MNers think they should be removed. However, the reason that Samaritans helps so many people is because often callers want to talk to someone who isn't connected to the situation in RL, where posters fear being judged or doubted. MN is the perfect place for that kind of support, and as PPs have testified, this really has helped them. I know that had I known of mumsnet when I felt this low, I would have been right here asking for support.

On the other hand, I understand that some people think the content can be triggering for others, but Samaritans is quite clear on this: by mentioning suicide to someone else, you are never 'going to put the idea in their head' to kill themselves. If someone is in that place, they will have thought of it already. Anything you say isn't going to egg them on, it may well save them.

Finally, I understand some threads are false and sensationalist, but what if the responses are providing someone else who is just too scared to post with some proper support? Why should this be deleted? If we allowed these threads, and talked about this more, it would become a much less 'taboo' part of life, and then the shitty wankers trolls wouldn't bother posting on this subject any more, because they wouldn't be shocking anyone, or getting any attention.

Not sure if I'm explaining myself clearly, but hey-ho.

theonlygothinthevillage · 21/10/2014 16:54

I disagree. It's fine if you're one of a horde who joined during one of the influxes when MN was in the news ITSWIM. But it could 'out' name changes if your date is not common, and be horrible for those who had changed for sensitive reasons.

Even if it were quite non specific? E.g. 'Less than 2 weeks', '2-4 weeks', '1-3 months', '4-6 months', and 'Over 6 months'?

Thurlow · 21/10/2014 16:54

The thread that presumably prompted this was definitely at the extreme end, and I can see the argument for that kind of thread to be deleted or locked. In all my years on MN that was about the most extreme thread of its kind I have seen (though it's hardly something I keep an eye out).

But most of the threads are asking to talk, and for help. The ideal way for posters to respond to not provide advice, to say they are listening, to continue to encourage the OP to call for professional help.

TunipTheUnconquerable · 21/10/2014 16:56

But MNHQ has access to 'date joined', they don't need to make it public.

IME, MNers are very quick to point to RL sources of help rather than trying to deal with anything themselves, and often they give the advice that is needed about how to access the help - eg that you won't be thought an attention-seeker if you go to A&E after taking an overdose, that your Samaritans or Women's Aid call won't appear on your phone bill.
This information can all be on a factsheet (and I think is) but it's not the same as being personally reassured of it.

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 16:56

"I have said it before, and I will say it again, I think MN needs to indicate 'date joined' even if posters name change."

But that implies that all regular posters are genuine when actually this is not the case. The most recent suspected one was a long-standing poster of four years.

Tdwp (yes, she has been named by mn hq in previous threads iirc) was a long-standing, regular poster

Mamazon was a long-standing, regular poster.

It's incredibly dangerous and naïve to assume that posters only join here to troll - reality is that most probably build up a rapport with people and then start to post emotive, and untrue threads in order to gain just that little bit more attention.

OP posts:
Thurlow · 21/10/2014 16:57

Also, just to pick up on an earlier point: through Samaritans, through friends and relatives, through the emergency services

This if of course ideal, but many posters will feel or perhaps be isolated and won't have family or friends to talk to, or have any history of MH issues so no professional contacts to call.

ArsenicChaseScream · 21/10/2014 16:57

There is a vast difference between writing that you have suicidal thoughts and posters urging you to seek some professional help, and writing a note on the boards saying goodbye to everyone because tonight you are going to kill yourself.

This.

There is also a difference between supportive conversation and endless 'crying here lovey' type posts.

Iwantmyparcel · 21/10/2014 16:58

The most recent suicide thread wasn't real ? Shock

magimedi · 21/10/2014 16:59

Agree with theonlygothinthevillage - I think it would help hugely if there was some indication, not exact date, of how long someone had been on MN.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn · 21/10/2014 17:00

Yes, Northern, but in my case the objective opinions helped me to actually go and get RL support, which at that particular point in my life, I'd discounted. It's wasn't my finest hour on MN I have to admit, but as a regular who has turned to MN for help with anything from my DSs SEN to what to wear, it was an avenue that still felt open.

There's lots of topics that could be served better with RL help. Domestic violence, health concerns, special needs. Still people post here first a lot of time for reassurance and support.

TunipTheUnconquerable · 21/10/2014 17:01

Wannabe, I agree. Trolls often play the long game, for example keeping a number of log-ins in reserve to use at a future date, as well as the ones who are genuine posters who like to troll from time to time.