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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MN hq, In light of recent postings on various parts of the site, can we please have an all-round discussion around conduct, authenticity and where we, the users stand?

252 replies

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 14:14

It’s fairly evident that there has been an increased influx of threads perceived not to be genuine of late. It has got to a point where people are hiding certain sections of the boards, sections which should be there to offer support but which are actually becoming a bit of a breeding ground for highly emotive threads which, after a day or two, turn out not to be genuine and then disappear only to be replaced by another one of the same type.

The problem with this is that there seem to be more “what happened to x thread?” posts on those boards now than threads themselves, which has totally taken away the supportive element to certain parts of the site.

This has come to a bit of a head last night because an extremely sensitive thread has been closed due to doubts about its authenticity, but the thread itself is still there for anyone to see, but subsequent discussion about the thread in question has been deleted due to it being “a taat.”

I appreciate that it’s not always possible to know whether a thread is genuine and that sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction.

I also appreciate that we as grown adults are responsible for our own reactions to what we read online and that we should never share more than we can afford to lose.

But in the real world you know that it’s not always that simple. Because people do read threads and do identify with them on a personal level, or empathise with an op, and feel the need to offer support. And when it turns out those threads are not genuine, people feel as if they have needlessly offered of themselves to support someone whose situation was never real.

My personal view is that certain threads shouldn’t be allowed to stand regardless. Threads such as suicide ones where posters are neither emotionally equipped or professionally qualified to deal with someone on the end of a keyboard. There are numerous support sources out there for people with such severe mh issues that they feel their only hope is suicide. MN is IMO not nor should it be considered to be one of them.

The reality is that we are a parenting forum. Many parents will go through other issues such as mh issues, but in truth mn’ers cannot be all things to all people, and removing a suicide thread does not mean that mn is an unsupportive environment, it simply means that mn is not equipped to deal with a suicidal poster and feels that they would benefit from professional help. In addition to this, removing such a thread protects those posters who have either had similar thoughts, or have personal experience of suicide, and at the same time reduces the types of topics which people can post vampiric threads about.

Added to that, if a thread is considered to not be genuine and is deleted, removing discussion of it will not take away the thought of it, and the more threads are deleted with discussion being stifled, the more resentful posters will become, and the less likely to post on discussion threads.

People want to talk about threads. Not least because most people are here because they enjoy being here, and feel they offer something when posting in support. If you take that away from people by stifling discussion (however unpalatable some of that discussion is), people will start to go elsewhere, or simply not post anywhere.

In addition, if you refuse to discuss suspected troll threads, leave emotive but locked threads on the boards, people will just continue their increased belief that there are more trolls than regulars and will see mn as a non worthwhile place to post. A fantacist’s corner, as it were. Is that really how you want mn to be perceived? Because atm it seems like it is a novel writer’s paradise on relationships with a touch of bitching thrown in for good measure on ibu.

OP posts:
LEMmingaround · 22/10/2014 23:29

I think if mnhq dont be far more up front about why posters are banned and threads are pulled they run the risk of the site imploding.

After this particular round of troll hunting there is no way on this earth i will be posting on this forum for support any more.

ChillingGrinBloodLover · 22/10/2014 23:39

Oh Lem that's really sad you feel like that. You are well known here, you shouldn't stop posting for support. No matter how many trolls or idiots there are around, there is still a good core of genuinely lovely posters here who want to help.

Maryz · 22/10/2014 23:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz · 22/10/2014 23:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

northernlurker · 22/10/2014 23:50

Chilling - I'm not ignoring that at all. It makes no difference to the overall aim and function of this site though. Bluntly we may have got away with it thus far but treating this site like an ideal place for support for the suicidal is reckless not compassionate.

McFox · 22/10/2014 23:59

I'm totally baffled by mn at the moment. It's not a particularly fun place to hang out. There's certainly no way that I'd be posting looking for support on serious matters; given the level of trolling and troll hunting going on, I'm not sure that I would be taken seriously, or I'd would be questioned into the ground in a bid to prove the veracity of my post. Either way, it's not what I expect of mn.

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 00:00

There is even a fucking topic for troll hunting now - the night watch. I mean really????

There are two issues here.

The most important thing i think is whether suicidal people can or should get support here. Whether they are making themselves more vulnerable or triggering others. Does every triggering post have to be zapped? There are umpteen posts about abuse which would be triggering. Again these topics might attract trolls.

I wonder what will happen but i imagine there are some heated discussions in mnhq just now.

wantabatplease · 23/10/2014 00:05

The Night Watch is for the moderators who work at night to patrol the boards, not a troll hunting topic I don't think.

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 00:08

Yes i know what it is. Does "report thread" not work of a night then?

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 00:09

That sounds snippy but not meant to be. Just pissed off with it all. Feel i have lost a source of support and I'm sad

wantabatplease · 23/10/2014 00:12

Thanks It's gone absolutely mental here this last week.

ChillingGrinBloodLover · 23/10/2014 00:15

Northernlurker No-one, not one single person, has said it's the ideal place for support for the suicidal, but given the idea place doesn't actually exist, MN has been the best available place for many.

ChillingGrinBloodLover · 23/10/2014 00:17

LEM you haven't though, you are well known and if you post in MH then there really shouldn't be any problem with continuing to get on going support. Flowers

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 00:21

Thankyou chilling. Not sure being well known is good or bad Blush maybe i have changed but i have definitely felt a huge shift in mnet.

Maryz · 23/10/2014 00:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScaryZ · 23/10/2014 00:23

And it's not about trolling - trolling is a separate issue altogether.

Whether the poster we are all alluding to is a troll or not is irrelevant to whether the thread as a whole should have been dealt with differently.

greyhoundgymnastics · 23/10/2014 00:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NanaNina · 23/10/2014 00:29

I think this issue is getting unnecessarily convoluted. It's been said again and again on this thread, so I'll be brief:

Surely there is a difference between the "I feel like I can't go on - need hand holding" type of post and let's call the others suicide notes for want of a better phrase. I think the former should stay obviously and the latter deleted. Am I being naïve or missing something.

I've read keema's thread as someone else had provided the link and I knew it was her even though she'd name changed. The thing was she was not talking in emotive language about "saying goodbye" - conversely she was very matter-of-fact and whilst making it clear she did want to end her life, she made no mention of her "chosen method" only that she had researched carefully. She admitted she didn't know why she was posting and that she thought herself pathetic (or something similar) Like many others I'm really glad the post got her to get RL help, but that could have been one isolated incident. I don't think her post would have caused people to be as upset as they were on the "goodbye" suicide note.

I'm a bit mixed up about the suicide threads that have sparked off this debate as I think there were more than one. I was sceptical of the one where the DH ostensibly came on to update everyone. It didn't ring true to me - and there was mention that he "found her hanging" even though that has been deleted now. So many people were very upset on that thread. Maybe the OP felt a bit embarrassed because she'd upset so many people and "putting the DH on" was her way of ending the thread. That's how I read it anyway.

NanaNina · 23/10/2014 00:36

Incidentally, does anyone remember Madmouse who used to post a lot on the MN threads but had a run in with MNHQ I think. I used to really value her posts and she would challenge posters if they were threatening suicide (as in "I'm definitely going to do it") in a direct but not unkind way, and I was always impressed with her ability to be straight, honest and authentic.

ChillingGrinBloodLover · 23/10/2014 00:38

LEM - I think it's good being a known poster who has a history of discussing their MH problems here, a 'oh fuck help' post from you would be received with a 'Oh shit hope LEM is OK what can we do to help' but a 'newbie/namechanger' is much more likely to get accused of being a troll.

I'd like a troll laser to rid the place of the leeches.

dontrunwithscissors · 23/10/2014 01:42

Surely part of this has a very simple answer: suicide or potentially triggering threads should stand in a separate section of the MH area. If you're likely to be triggered by such discussion, don't go there. Simple. MN can no more "baby" readers of threads than they can posters.

And, FWIW, some of the posts on this thread show a shocking ignorance of suicide and stigmatisation of mental illness.

ArsenicChaseScream · 23/10/2014 02:17

Maybe the OP felt a bit embarrassed because she'd upset so many people and "putting the DH on" was her way of ending the thread. That's how I read it anyway.

Well she's been back tonight.

Two new threads, two new accounts; second one started by her, first by someone else but she came on and protested.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2216357-I-missed-what-happened-on-Wombats-thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2216417-WOMBAT-AGAIN-MNHQ-dont-just-delete-threads-I-am-not-a-troll-ANSWER-ME-ON-THREAD?msgid=50261185#50261185

This is all getting a bit I-don't-know-what.

TheOrchardKeeper · 23/10/2014 07:24

I posted last year, when I had no other decent support. My family love me etc but they had no idea what to do and I had no one else to turn to. I was struggling with feeling suicidal and backing out, then making plans then backing out again etc.

MN may just be an internet forum, but I posted in MH and people (mostly) gave brilliant advice and support. I can honestly say things may habe turned out very differently if I hadn't had that at the darkest point, when I felt like nobody else cared if I was dead or not...

If you see a threda like that, can't you tell from the first post that it's not the one for you (if they bother you)? I managed to avoid other similar posts for a year, until I felt 'strong' enough to read them and give advice if I could. Don't see why others can't do the same?

A very specific area may be a good idea though, so very vulnerable people (ie those affected/bereaved by suicide themselves or those who find it triggering) can avoid them entirely.

If I hadn't been able to post here (I hate the normal MH forums on sites like Mind etc as they're more triggering than anything I've seen on MN) then I would have bottled all that up and struggled much more. And potentially not be here anymore. I just hope MNHQ reallllly think about it and ways to make the threads more seperate but not eliminate them. I knew where to get help, so closing my thread and posting links to it would've been useless. People post in those situations because the reality is, a lot of MH services aren't in great form. A poster advised me to just forget the crisis team (who were taking hours to even reply to a phone call) and go straight to A&E which I did and which worked. I wouldn't have gotten that advice off a generic website or the Samaritans etc.

cedricsneer · 23/10/2014 07:40

I commented on that thread. I have also had my problems. I strongly suspected a troll, but it didn't stop me from posting a supportive message and I would do so again.

I have been on mn for 9 years, and if I didn't feel I could come here for support for another mh crisis I would feel even more isolated - not good when you are trying to reach out for support somewhere you have grown to trust. I think effectively banning posters in crisis is an awful idea. Mn is about so much more than parenting and i would suggest that if you find a thread triggering then hide it.

I work for a helpline and we would never shut anyone down. We get plenty of trolling calls and our philosophy is that most of them need something from that call - very often we get down to some real issues by challenging them appropriately.

I realise that we can't do the same on such a huge site as mn, nor are most posters qualified to cut through the fantasy and get real, but not all trolling is totally malicious and far better to just disengage if it is triggering.

Please do not delete suicide threads mn.

TheOrchardKeeper · 23/10/2014 07:46

Exactly what Cedric said. It helps with isolation, especially if you're anxious/not able to leave the house, or like me, a single parent with only one close friend and a stiff upper lip type family. It might be hard to understand that some people have that little support but more isolation to save the feelings of people who could avoid those threads seems a bit wrong to me, no offense. I can see why people don't like the threads. They can be very distressing. But I know they're avoidable as I avoided them pretty well for a year after I got ill myself.

Just make clearer rules about it needing to stay on the MH board and maybe move threads that crop in the 'wrong' places, if you must.