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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MN hq, In light of recent postings on various parts of the site, can we please have an all-round discussion around conduct, authenticity and where we, the users stand?

252 replies

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 14:14

It’s fairly evident that there has been an increased influx of threads perceived not to be genuine of late. It has got to a point where people are hiding certain sections of the boards, sections which should be there to offer support but which are actually becoming a bit of a breeding ground for highly emotive threads which, after a day or two, turn out not to be genuine and then disappear only to be replaced by another one of the same type.

The problem with this is that there seem to be more “what happened to x thread?” posts on those boards now than threads themselves, which has totally taken away the supportive element to certain parts of the site.

This has come to a bit of a head last night because an extremely sensitive thread has been closed due to doubts about its authenticity, but the thread itself is still there for anyone to see, but subsequent discussion about the thread in question has been deleted due to it being “a taat.”

I appreciate that it’s not always possible to know whether a thread is genuine and that sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction.

I also appreciate that we as grown adults are responsible for our own reactions to what we read online and that we should never share more than we can afford to lose.

But in the real world you know that it’s not always that simple. Because people do read threads and do identify with them on a personal level, or empathise with an op, and feel the need to offer support. And when it turns out those threads are not genuine, people feel as if they have needlessly offered of themselves to support someone whose situation was never real.

My personal view is that certain threads shouldn’t be allowed to stand regardless. Threads such as suicide ones where posters are neither emotionally equipped or professionally qualified to deal with someone on the end of a keyboard. There are numerous support sources out there for people with such severe mh issues that they feel their only hope is suicide. MN is IMO not nor should it be considered to be one of them.

The reality is that we are a parenting forum. Many parents will go through other issues such as mh issues, but in truth mn’ers cannot be all things to all people, and removing a suicide thread does not mean that mn is an unsupportive environment, it simply means that mn is not equipped to deal with a suicidal poster and feels that they would benefit from professional help. In addition to this, removing such a thread protects those posters who have either had similar thoughts, or have personal experience of suicide, and at the same time reduces the types of topics which people can post vampiric threads about.

Added to that, if a thread is considered to not be genuine and is deleted, removing discussion of it will not take away the thought of it, and the more threads are deleted with discussion being stifled, the more resentful posters will become, and the less likely to post on discussion threads.

People want to talk about threads. Not least because most people are here because they enjoy being here, and feel they offer something when posting in support. If you take that away from people by stifling discussion (however unpalatable some of that discussion is), people will start to go elsewhere, or simply not post anywhere.

In addition, if you refuse to discuss suspected troll threads, leave emotive but locked threads on the boards, people will just continue their increased belief that there are more trolls than regulars and will see mn as a non worthwhile place to post. A fantacist’s corner, as it were. Is that really how you want mn to be perceived? Because atm it seems like it is a novel writer’s paradise on relationships with a touch of bitching thrown in for good measure on ibu.

OP posts:
QuintessentiallyGhoulish · 21/10/2014 20:20

"Suicide threads are incredibly triggering. And they are triggers for the people who deserve and need protecting from them."

I agree with that.

northernlurker · 21/10/2014 20:24

I don't think anybody feels posters in your situation shouldn't be able to post and receive support Caulk. It is the very specific threads that describe an imminent intention that are at issue. I hope you make a speedy recovery and I'm glad you're finding supportive voices here.

MiddletonPink · 21/10/2014 20:30

The thread that wannabe mentions in her OP that is very sensitive and has been closed for posting due to doubts about it's authenticity, is that the suicide one where the DH comes on the thread?

Maryz · 21/10/2014 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wooooosualsuspect · 21/10/2014 20:37

Yes. Middleton.

wooooosualsuspect · 21/10/2014 20:38

Where did you read that., Spaniel?

MiddletonPink · 21/10/2014 20:41

Thanks Usual.

The message I saw explaining that posts were being halted didn't intimate anything dodgy? I did wonder what was going on tbh.

Have they put another message on saying it's dodge?

wooooosualsuspect · 21/10/2014 20:44

I think it's been deleted now.

MiddletonPink · 21/10/2014 20:45

Right just seen that it's been deleted.

God so many people were upset on that thread. I did wonder if it was true tbh. A lot didn't add up.

StickEm · 21/10/2014 20:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpanielofDoom · 21/10/2014 21:17

wooooosual Not sure which bit of my post you're asking about ?

wooooosualsuspect · 21/10/2014 21:26

I just wondered which thread you were referring too, but if you tell me this will be a TAAT , so probably best you don't say Grin

PM me

fairgame · 21/10/2014 21:33

I agree with arsenic
I thought it was a flouncers thread when i saw the title. The content was actually really disturbing and brought back a lot deeply buried feelings for me. If i had known what it was about then i never would have clicked.
The whole feeling of helplessness by not being able to help the OP was upsetting.

ShakyTheStork · 21/10/2014 21:47

I am another one that found that thread triggering and was upset by it and the following multiple TAAT's. I got a bit teary and emotional on here last night Blush

I disclosed more than I normally would about my depression and had a bit of a wobble. I would just like to say that, today was another day, put on a new frame of mind (I wish I could be worsel gummidge and wear a new head every day). Today has been better.

Thank you to those who saw and helped me, even though the thread was in the process of being deleted. Thanks

THIS is what MN is about.

SlowlorisIncognito · 21/10/2014 22:03

PrettyPictures92 Flowers I can totally understand getting sucked into a thread like that if you didn't know what it was when you clicked on it. I actively avoid threads on certain subjects for various reasons too and I understand where you're coming from. I hope you're ok, and the thread hasn't upset you too much.

I hope everyone else is feeling ok too.

One other thing I'd like to add to this thread is that we do have to remember that the majority of mumsnet threads will come up if you do a google search. Although most posters on the site will be adults, it's also possible that vulnerable teenagers could stumble across these threads. I know it's easy to say mumsnet only have a duty to their users, but I think it's something people ought to bear in mind when threads are posted in places like chat.

I also think that sometimes discussion of mental health issues in certain ways can normalise extreme behaviours, which is why I think that MNHQ should consider the way they handle any threads where a poster is discussing actively harming themselves (e.g. self harm, due to an eating disorder) as well as threads talking about suicide. I'm not saying these threads should be deleted, but perhaps any discussion of methods should be removed?

I don't want people to lose advice and support, and I think there should never be any censorship of people talking about their feelings, or discussing things in a more abstract way unless they are describing methods of suicide/self harm in detail.

fluffydressinggown · 21/10/2014 22:06

I think a lot of the suicide threads are cries for help, I mean that doesn't mean people don't mean it seriously but sometimes it is a last port of call. That said I think suicide notes are very emotive and difficult and should be deleted. I think posts discussing suicidal thought should be allowed to stand.

People are always quick to recommend RL help and A&E but the reality is often a very long wait in A&E to be told to go home and see your GP. When people feel so low and so desperate words on a screen can be useful. But maybe the place for support is after people have sought RL help.

And I say all this as someone sectioned because I am at high risk of suicide. Should my posts be deleted because I talk openly of my desire/God's plan for me to end my life. I am getting the real life help - I am literally watched 24/7 - there is nothing more they can do to support me but I still find posting on MN to be helpful. I hope people don't think I am a troll, I can prove I am really in hospital and I am really suicidal (although is v.complex).

ChillingGrinBloodLover · 21/10/2014 22:25

People keep ignoring the posters who have said they got help when they needed it (Keema, Lem, Thurlow & others)... yes, some trolls will post, but other people who genuinely need help at that point in time will post - it is wrong to deny them the contact/help they need on the basis that they could be a troll or that posters aren't 'trained'. People don't always need trained, but what they do always need is 'care & support', people to talk to.

Tackle the actual problem. Trolls.

ChillingGrinBloodLover · 21/10/2014 22:28

Fluffy

Mine was a cross post with yours, I started writing it, went off to deal with something and didn't refresh before posting.

I can't imagine the hell you are going through x

ShakyTheStork · 21/10/2014 22:29

Flowers Fluffy you have had a long battle with this. I really hope that you start to feel even a tiny bit better soon. Much love to you x

fluffydressinggown · 21/10/2014 22:38

Sorry I didn't post for sympathy (although thank you :)) I posted merely to make the point that quite a lot of MH posters are already well into services. And accessing the crisis team is not that simple.

ChillingGrinBloodLover · 21/10/2014 22:42

Fluffy I realise that, but it doesn't stop me wishing I could click my fingers and make it better for you :( x

We do need people in your situation to post, to prove to certain others that MN IS helpful and threads shouldn't be locked or deleted & that accessing other services isn't always that easy. That 'regular' people can actually help.

SlowlorisIncognito · 21/10/2014 22:43

I don't think anyone wants to stop posters accessing support. However, there is a distinction between a thread saying "I am having suicidal thoughts, I am getting help but I would like support on this forum too" compared to a thread where a poster posts their suicide note to the forum, or posts a detailed plan for committing suicide/harming themselves. I think the first should be allowed, but carefully monitored, while the second types should not be allowed to stand.

It's not about trolls vs non-trolls, it's about protecting everyone, including posters, lurkers, people who find the thread through google search, even mumsnet staff, who could easily end up in a very difficult situation should the worst happen.

Most web forums have a very different policy to mumsnet regarding mental health crisis threads- for a good reason. Their policies are more closely in line with samaritans guidelines, which another poster quoted on another thread on this subject.

Trolls are a problem too, and I do think there are some very simple steps MNHQ could take to deal with them, or make them easier to spot. However, even genuine threads raise issues, which should be considered. The OP is not the only person entitled to consideration.

ShakyTheStork · 21/10/2014 22:48

Fluffy I see what you are saying too. I am another poster that thinks of you and sends good wishes to you

fluffydressinggown · 21/10/2014 22:49

Yes I do agree that direct suicide notes need to be deleted, but there is such a fine line. Like Keema said, she posted one but was persuaded into getting the right help. And I agree that most forums do delete suicide notes.

Maybe a post stating that suicide notes will be deleted but inviting people to ask for support with suicidal thoughts?

wooooosualsuspect · 21/10/2014 22:51

MN is just an internet forum, it's not a special place with all the answers.

Relying on MN for support is not a good idea.