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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MN hq, In light of recent postings on various parts of the site, can we please have an all-round discussion around conduct, authenticity and where we, the users stand?

252 replies

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 14:14

It’s fairly evident that there has been an increased influx of threads perceived not to be genuine of late. It has got to a point where people are hiding certain sections of the boards, sections which should be there to offer support but which are actually becoming a bit of a breeding ground for highly emotive threads which, after a day or two, turn out not to be genuine and then disappear only to be replaced by another one of the same type.

The problem with this is that there seem to be more “what happened to x thread?” posts on those boards now than threads themselves, which has totally taken away the supportive element to certain parts of the site.

This has come to a bit of a head last night because an extremely sensitive thread has been closed due to doubts about its authenticity, but the thread itself is still there for anyone to see, but subsequent discussion about the thread in question has been deleted due to it being “a taat.”

I appreciate that it’s not always possible to know whether a thread is genuine and that sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction.

I also appreciate that we as grown adults are responsible for our own reactions to what we read online and that we should never share more than we can afford to lose.

But in the real world you know that it’s not always that simple. Because people do read threads and do identify with them on a personal level, or empathise with an op, and feel the need to offer support. And when it turns out those threads are not genuine, people feel as if they have needlessly offered of themselves to support someone whose situation was never real.

My personal view is that certain threads shouldn’t be allowed to stand regardless. Threads such as suicide ones where posters are neither emotionally equipped or professionally qualified to deal with someone on the end of a keyboard. There are numerous support sources out there for people with such severe mh issues that they feel their only hope is suicide. MN is IMO not nor should it be considered to be one of them.

The reality is that we are a parenting forum. Many parents will go through other issues such as mh issues, but in truth mn’ers cannot be all things to all people, and removing a suicide thread does not mean that mn is an unsupportive environment, it simply means that mn is not equipped to deal with a suicidal poster and feels that they would benefit from professional help. In addition to this, removing such a thread protects those posters who have either had similar thoughts, or have personal experience of suicide, and at the same time reduces the types of topics which people can post vampiric threads about.

Added to that, if a thread is considered to not be genuine and is deleted, removing discussion of it will not take away the thought of it, and the more threads are deleted with discussion being stifled, the more resentful posters will become, and the less likely to post on discussion threads.

People want to talk about threads. Not least because most people are here because they enjoy being here, and feel they offer something when posting in support. If you take that away from people by stifling discussion (however unpalatable some of that discussion is), people will start to go elsewhere, or simply not post anywhere.

In addition, if you refuse to discuss suspected troll threads, leave emotive but locked threads on the boards, people will just continue their increased belief that there are more trolls than regulars and will see mn as a non worthwhile place to post. A fantacist’s corner, as it were. Is that really how you want mn to be perceived? Because atm it seems like it is a novel writer’s paradise on relationships with a touch of bitching thrown in for good measure on ibu.

OP posts:
nethunsreject · 21/10/2014 17:42

I meant they'd keep away because of the ethics of becoming involved in the discussion. Or last night, because it was looking like a troll early on. Sorry, I know I'm a bit garbled here! Pretending to cook supper ;-). Yes, nl, I understand, but I still think that to restrict discussion is a dodgy message to send out.

TheLateKateMumsnet · 21/10/2014 17:47

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all the points you've raised. As we said here, we are currently in discussions with Samaritans about what would be the best practise for us in regards to suicide threads. We'll come back to you as soon as we reach a clear consensus, and let you know what our thoughts are.

We've now deleted the suicide thread that we had previously suspended - as whilst we not entirely sure what was happening on that thread, we agree it's probably best removed, rather than suspended.

On the subject of TAAT - whilst we don't condone threads becoming protracted attacks on other posters, if you're discussing a thread that we've deleted for being misleading (and we've said as much in our deletion message), then we've not going to fall over ourselves getting rid of troll hunting (which is why this has been left as it is,, plus, it hasn't been reported to us as a TAAT)

We know it's been a bit more trolly recently (our big red button is vair tired), but we do think that generally Mumsnet is a great place for people to post and get support. And the reason it's so great is because of YOU. Yes you. Right there. It's your wonderful threads and posts that make it a good place. So whilst all the annoying threads are indeed annoying, please don't lose heart.

theonlygothinthevillage · 21/10/2014 17:48

Then that would make it an entirely different site. And would probably require a fee to be a member.

That involvement could be restricted to the MH threads, and perhaps also to bereavement and similar threads. I'm sure there are ways of funding it that don't involve charging users (Netmums does it, as I've said).

I actually agree with Delphiniumsblue - it might be appropriate to exclude certain topics from the 'active' list.

LineRunner · 21/10/2014 17:54

I think the way it'll go is that suicide threads will be locked and there will a standard supportive post added to the thread by MNHQ (or someone allowed to do from the Nightwatch), probably with the wording agreed with the Samaritans.

WorraLiberty · 21/10/2014 18:01

I think that sounds like a good idea LineRunner, especially if it contained the Samaritans contact details.

northernlurker · 21/10/2014 18:02

I think that we need to remember that there already services out there for people who are contemplating suicide. Mumsnet does not need to employ or train counsellors. The function should be to refer on to specialist support, not try and replicate that support ourselves.

PrettyPictures92 · 21/10/2014 18:09

Someone please tell me that the suicide thread that's been deleted wasn't a troll??? It seemed so genuine and moved me (and others) to tears.

LineRunner · 21/10/2014 18:14

When I was new to MN, I recall a poster warning people that she thought that some longstanding posters could be building up to some spectacular pieces of trolldom. At the time I thought it was rather dramatic. Now I think it was good advice.

LineRunner · 21/10/2014 18:16

Particularly now that MN is, let's face it, a multi-million pound business, and destabilising it could conceivably be on someone's agenda.

ElkTheory · 21/10/2014 18:17

I completely agree with DrankSangriaInThePark's first post on this thread. MNHQ should delete any thread which includes a threat of suicide or a suicide note saying goodbye.

It feels a bit odd for me to say that. Generally speaking, I think MNHQ are far too willing to delete posts for perceived personal attacks (a subjective category if ever there was one) and troll hunting (when I would say it is healthier for the site as a whole to have the option to say, "Something here doesn't add up"). But in the case of someone who claims to be about to commit suicide, I think it is irresponsible in the extreme for MNHQ to leave those threads untouched beyond a perfunctory "Look at these excellent resources" post.

People seem to enjoy feeling heroic, and they might think that posting a supportive message has saved someone from suicide. But truly, nothing anyone writes on a message board can prevent someone from committing suicide if he/she is determined to do so. And the voyeurism of some people returning to a thread like that over and over is sickening.

I concluded long ago that some areas of MN are at least 50% pure fiction. Recently it seems more like 75%. I don't know what the answer is to that overarching problem. But the answer to the problem of threads about imminent suicide seems very clear to me: delete them immediately.

SlowlorisIncognito · 21/10/2014 18:19

PrettyPictures I don't think there's any proof that the thread was a definite troll post, but there have been some suggestions that it wasn't entirely genuine. No-one can ever know for sure if what posters are saying is the absolute truth.

I would say that if you are (understandably) upset by such threads, it's probably best to avoid them, as you can never know if a poster is genuine. My gut feeling is that a lot of posts (on all websites) of this kind are either troll posts or posters exaggerating for effect/attention.

It's best to protect yourself and if you feel able, limit your posts to directing people to services that can provide them with RL support.

NanFucker · 21/10/2014 18:38

Genuine question, why we're you moved to tears?

NanFucker · 21/10/2014 18:39

I'm moved to tears by the 'we're' in my last post. Autocorrect - were obviously

PrettyPictures92 · 21/10/2014 18:47

Because I've been that low Nan, I didn't post about it on forums, didn't even tell anyone id overdosed and when I woke up the next morning being violently sick everywhere there was no one to tell me they were happy I was still alive, no one to tell me that anyone gave a crap about me. I still feel that low sometimes, not that I would do anything about it now I've my two little ones. But the fact is I could relate to her and how she was feeling so well that I was desperate for her to get some help and be ok. I can be very empathetic (when I believe someone is being true) so i was upset on her behalf. And the support and care she received from everyone who posted was amazing too.

Or maybe I'm just a sappy over emotional bitch. Either way there was tears.

Slow I completely agree with you about staying away from posts like that when you can't handle it. I don't go onto the mh boards for this reason, I just can't handle it. But she had posted in chat and I thought it was going to be some nice post about saying goodbye to something daft, and after I'd read it I couldn't just leave if that made sense? It seemed heartless and cruel to ignore something that seemed like such a big cry for help.

NanFucker · 21/10/2014 18:50

Pretty thank you for answering, was a genuine question :) I too have felt that low so know where you are coming from. I have cried over posts on here before but for some reason felt totally detached from that thread. Just seemed strange to me.

I hope things are better for you now Thanks

NanFucker · 21/10/2014 18:51

And that's a good point you raise re being in chat, you can avoid certain boards if you're feeling vulnerable but as it was in chat people didn't necessarily know what it was about

PrettyPictures92 · 21/10/2014 18:51

No problem Nan, I didn't think you'd asked out of nastines :) things are much better here now, hope they are for you too Flowers

ItsNotEasyBeingGreen · 21/10/2014 18:54

Well said OP and I'm glad the Mumsnet is seeking the advice of the Samaritans in how these threads should be dealt with. I personally never respond because I have no training or experience in such matters, can't imagine anything I have to say will help matters and think these issues are best left to professionals. However I am always reminded of the young man who tracked down the man who stopped to talk to him when he was considering suicide by jumping off a bridge and saved his life, by simply talking to him. It's very difficult.

On the note of MN becoming more 'trolly' of late... Yes sadly it has and it really is ruining the experience for a great many regular MNers. Again I'm not sure what can be done, with the exception of MNers being aware and trying not to fall for it. :(

ArsenicChaseScream · 21/10/2014 19:02

And that's a good point you raise re being in chat, you can avoid certain boards if you're feeling vulnerable but as it was in chat people didn't necessarily know what it was about

No.

In fact I clicked it expecting it to be a flounce (that's how the title read to me, and it was chat....)

WannaBe · 21/10/2014 19:07

Sad the thing is with threads like that is that belief is subjective. So what to one is a very convincing, genuine sounding thread sounds like a crock of shite to someone else. And this is especially true when someone has personal experience - they identify with what the poster is going through (this is equally true for bereavement) and therefore identify with the thread - iyswim.

Another consideration when allowing these threads to stand even with details of professionals on them is that posters will take the opportunity to pm the op, running the very real risk of becoming an emotional crutch to them but without the back-up of other posters on the board iyswim. If the thread is pulled straight away it's less likely that vulnerable posters will become personally more involved than they should.

OP posts:
Maryz · 21/10/2014 19:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpanielofDoom · 21/10/2014 19:47

Off the suicide threads for a moment, I've also thought about leaving MN for a while, until this trollery dies down a bit. I don't post much but I read almost daily.

I decided to stay when I remembered that there are certain groups that hate MN. I've seen a thread today where I think there's been collaboration from some of these people.
While I know that they're not solely responsible for trollery, I think that my leaving MN because of their goady fucker threads would be letting them win their pathetic little game.

CaulkheadUpNorth · 21/10/2014 19:53

I'm hesitant to jump in on this, as it's my thread which is currently active about taking an overdose over the weekend. I'm in hospital currently. I can't prove I'm not a troll (except adding a picture of my hospital bed/cannula/notes would help?!)
I've had incredible support from people saying "yes, I've been there, and yes you will get through this".

I understand my situation is different to someone saying they are thinking about it and need talking out or anything like that, but I just wanted to add as I'd seen my thread mentioned.

SpanielofDoom · 21/10/2014 19:57

"Suicide threads are incredibly triggering. And they are triggers for the people who deserve and need protecting from them."

Agree completely.

PrettyPictures92 · 21/10/2014 20:09

Caulk Flowers I hope you're doing better. There's a massive difference between saying that you're about to overdose and saying that you have done recently and you're now in hospital and getting help, and hey would you mind giving me a little bit of support right now while I get through this bad patch?

Of course, trolls can say that too I guess, it's just less likely maybe. There isn't as big an emotional out cry. But then again I could be seriously wrong