Walk me through how equal co-parents with differing preferences for schools would be assessed?!

[SarahAndQuack]

My ex-P and I have our DD 50% of the time each. We are generally civil, but I am aware secondary school will be a flashpoint and I am not sure I understand the process, despite trying to research it. If anyone has been involved in this sort of situation (as a parent or the authority that deals with it!), I'd really appreciate advice. Obviously, I hope we'll just manage to agree, but I'd like to know where I stand.

DD started primary before we split. Ex-P moved and is now 20 minutes' drive away (12 miles). However, ex-P's work is about 2 minutes' drive from DD's school, so she does not struggle to get DD to school and then to work at 9.

For secondary school obviously we are in different catchments. Schools are not highly subscribed and in my experience, generally, children get places where they apply. Of course one couldn't rely on that. (I can go into details about catchments and schools, but don't want to make the post too long!)

The long and short is, I am fairly sure ex-P will want DD to go to the school that's nearest her (5 mins drive as opposed to 10). The big bonus is DD would be able to walk there, in theory. It's not a good school; the GCSE results are well below local and national averages; it has no sixth form, and generally people don't have good things to say about it.

I would like DD to go to a school that is 10 mins drive from ex-P (15-20 from me, but there is usually a bus). It has good results and seems strong in the subjects DD enjoys; at least some of DD's friends will be going there.

If we couldn't agree, my understanding is the LEA does it? Is that right? And based on what? Googling seems to suggest it's things like who gets child benefit (her, as she's the bio mum and it seemed sensible at the time), where the child goes to school now (near me, as I didn't move) ... basically it's all very evenly split.

If you've got this far, thanks!

I think you’re worrying a lot about a hypothetical issue. Can’t you talk to your ex about it?

And where does DD want to go to school?

Where does your DD want to go?

You use primary address so the person there is main parent for this application

Not very easily. I've raised the issue in the past, and tend to get stonewalled. I don't think she wants to think about it.

She says she wants to go to the one I like, because her friends will go there. But I am mindful that I don't want to know we might disagree - if she does have to go to the other school, I don't want her to think 'mummy Sarah wanted me to go with my friends but mummy <ex-P's name> sent me here'. You know?

Ah, ok. That sounds very simple! I thought it was more complicated from googling but I'm glad if it is not.

I would really prioritise coming to a joint preference. I presume your DD is not starting secondary in 2027.

Do you both live within the same local authority? Where is your DD registered with a GP? Does your DD spend the same amount of term time nights at each home, I.e. how many Sunday to Thursday nights does she spend with each of you? Instead of talking about driving times, I would focus on distance. Is there a secondary option within 3 miles of each home to which DD can walk or catch a bus?

How would DD get from your home to the school near your ex and vice versa? Is there a school to which she could easily travel to by walking or by one bus from each home, I.e. one parent isn’t forced to drive while she can walk or bus from the other home.

Other considerations, is she a Pupil Premium child and do any of the schools prioritise PP pupils in their admissions? Does her current primary feed into a named school or schools?

Doesn’t the primary now hold both addresses?

Thanks.

She will start in 2028. I hope we can come to a joint preference, of course! But I think, knowing my ex, that that is more likely to happen if I am able to put my case clearly.

We are in the same LEA; we have the same number of term time nights (we have 50/50 residence).

In terms of distance: there are no secondary schools within three miles of me. The nearest is 6 miles; the second-nearest is 11 miles. There would be buses to both.

There are two secondary schools within three miles of ex-P. There is no public transport to either. One is a 5 minute drive/20 minute walk from ex-P (though I don't think she would let DD walk there at the moment). For me, there is no bus to this school; I would have to drive the 11 miles. The other is a 7-10 minute drive from ex-P; there would be a bus from mine to that school.

She isn't a pupil premium child; her current school basically feeds into the nearest school to me, but it is quite common that children go to the school near my ex, and at least some of her friends will go there.

(Oh, sorry, missed this: DD is registered with a GP near me.)

I had this…the two authorities we had both had different criteria of how schools were allocated for separated families so you need to look at the admissions criteria for both. They each had a list of things they looked for and coincidentally each favoured the person wanting yo apply to that authority meaning it would have have ended up in a stalemate again. We went to look at all the schools together, agreed not to show a preference for any school and let the DC have input.
asking a child for their preference in isolation is not fair as they may not want to upset either parent.
It was 3 years ago but I think if we had both decided to put a form in to each of the two authorities then it was recommended to do it early so they could look at it holistically and decide which had preference..otherwise there might be delays and risks of not getting either and being stuck with whatever is left.
you imply it’s the same authority, but different catchment areas so assuming it would be more straightforward for you

Thank you so much.

YY, very much agree with you that it's important not to make DD feel she's being asked to choose between parents rather than between schools!

It is the same authority but different catchment areas. I do hope that makes it more straightforward!

If you have a look in the school admissions brochure it should set out the terms…both of ours were very clear in the sense it said ‘for separated families who disagree this is how it’s settled’

I can't see that either school has published this information.

Sorry I wasn’t clear- it was in the local authority online brochure not the individual school. We were given a copy/link at some point when the application process was starting but it’s also in the website. In our case anyway

OP you are being given incorrect information here. Your local authority will not adjudicate between you and your ex if you can’t agree. You would need to issue an application to the court for a specific issue order if you really can’t agree.

I echo the advice from a pp to look at your local authority’s guide to secondary admissions. Here is what mine says for info:

Split Residency
Where a child lives between two addresses, only one application can be processed and only one address can be used for admissions purposes.
The address used will be the address where the child spends the majority of school nights. The application should be submitted by the parent or carer living at that address.
It is the responsibility of the parent or carer making the application to provide details of the child's living arrangements at the time of application.
Correspondence relating to the application will only be sent to the applicant.

Multiple Applications Submitted
You must submit one application only and use one application method for each child.
If multiple applications are submitted, the most recent application received by the National Closing Date will be treated as the final application.
Multiple applications can cause technical difficulties when importing your application. This may therefore affect how you receive your offer.

Parental Disputes
School Admissions will not become involved in family disputes. Where multiple applications are submitted by different parties, both parents may be contacted and asked to reach a mutual agreement. Further information may also be requested. Where parents cannot agree, they will be expected to seek legal advice. School Admissions and admission authorities may also seek legal advice where necessary.

Depending on the circumstances, School Admissions may:
• process the application submitted by the parent with whom the child appears to
spend most school nights;
• delay processing the application until a mutual agreement has been reached; or
• delay processing until a decision has been made through solicitors or by a court.
This does not remove the responsibility on parents to resolve any dispute regarding the application.

Does your LA and the schools concerned all operate formal catchments, with the associated red line maps, rather than recruiting on distance? I’m presuming you live pretty rurally, at six miles from the nearest school she would be entitled to home to school transport so there could be financial implications for the local authority of your preference. Are you close to a LA border, are there any all-through or secondary schools situated nearer?

My (personal, not professional!) experience of this is that if there is any disagreement between separated parents re: school admission, the admissions officer will put the application on hold and won't touch it until an agreement between parents is reached. As PP put it, it's not their job to adjudicate between parents. I also agree with PP that ideally you need to reach an agreement with your ex about this, otherwise it will need to be decided in family court which takes ages and is potentially extremely stressful/expensive, also damaging to existing co-parenting relationships if things are otherwise amicable. Would mediation be an option perhaps? I also have experience of 50/50 parenting where there is genuinely no "primary" parent, for school admission purposes we used the address closest to the school we all decided on. However if there's a query over whether it's the correct address for school admission purposes, I understand that they may look at who receives child benefit, where the child is registered for GP/dentist etc.

It sounds as if, practically speaking, the comparison is
A) bus from yours, 10 minute drive from partner's
B) 15-20 minute drive from yours, 5 minute drive or walk from partner's.

On balance, A seems more equitable, and probably a better school. So that's the case you make. Although you wouldn't have to get her to/from school from yours, you won't get off scot-free, particularly if she does an after-school club that means missing the bus. Do some children from partner's area go to school A? That might increase the chance of some lift-sharing.

Sounds very complicated, OP, you have my sympathies.
I would strongly advise visiting the two possible schools as soon as possible with your ex. In my experience, secondaries tended to have open days in September/October and July sort of time. You don't want to be visiting schools the September you have to make this decision. Ideally you'd be doing it now but I'm assuming all the open days have already happened. If so, definitely try and get to any July ones.
If they don't have July open days, see if you can visit the school anyway. Some schools will organise tours for prospective parents outside of open days. It tends to be the under subscribed schools that do this - over subscribed schools don't need to entice parents.
In my experience, actually seeing a school really helps crystallise your decision. You might be pleasantly surprised by the school your ex wants (we ended up sending DS to a primary school I'd basically ruled out after reading the Ofsted - the school with the best (v out of date) Ofsted we ended up putting third.) I have a family member who was Head of a failing school and he said school reputations tend to lag five years behind the actual school experience. His previously failing school ended up being one of the most popular in his city.
Alternatively, once your ex sees the difference between the two schools, your case may become much clearer to her, particularly if DD likes it better.
Can you actually get your DD to her preference if there's no bus? How does she envisage DD getting there and back?
And conversely, how is DD supposed to get to your favourite school if there's no bus and your partner needs to be at work at 9am every morning? Does the school have a breakfast club? Most secondaries do, but it's worth being sure the logistics work. And, more importantly, how are you imagining DD getting to your exes house at 3.30 if there's no public transport and mum is at work? It doesn't matter how great School A is - if it doesn't work logistically, it's a non starter.

Thanks all, so much! I am sure some of this seems obvious to old hands but it really wasn't to me!

@LadyLapsang I will check about catchments. We are close-ish to a border, but there's not a nearer secondary in the other LA. It's about 11 miles, again.

@lanthanum Other children from ex-P's area will go to school A; I don't know how many or if she knows them.

@Hegglepig - I've visted the school I like a few times; DD has been taken on a visit by her school just recently. But you're right, I should visit the other one and I haven't. It's not so much the Ofsted report; it's the whole package. But I take your point.

I think my ex will assume if I need to get DD to school I just have to drive her there every day, which is after all what she does for primary school now, although it is an easy drive because it's on the direct route to her work, so she'd be doing it anyway.

Yes, the school I like has a breakfast club and an after school club. My ex already uses the breakfast club and after-school club at DD's primary school on occasions when she needs to be working strictly 9-5 (as do I). We both work jobs with flexible hours and she is often able to work from home. The only difference for her would be that the secondary school is a few minutes' drive away from her house, with no other destination in mind (though it is in the right direction for driving to her work). The primary school, though further away from her, is directly en route to her work.

I mean, you're probably right about the other school, let's be honest. But I really meant you should visit with your ex (to reiterate that this is a decision you're making together), you should at least give her choice a chance, and you should do it early enough that she has time to think about the options and come round to your choice if it's obviously better.
I really hope you aren't stuck taking your child to school every day for the next five years. It's such a joy having kids who're independent. But I'm glad you'll both be able to make it either way.