Wanting my child to do less than 11 GCSEs - what are our options?

[toomanygcses]

Hallo, my child is in year 9 and at a state school where if you do triple science you take 11 GCSEs. And there's an additional maths qualification they do as well in top set.

This seems really unecessary to me. I live in a heavy private/grammar area and these schools get kids to do 8-10 presumably because they've realised kids do better without being totally swamped with loads of different subjects you don't even need....noone needs 11 GCSEs.

I'd like my child to do less. As far as I can see I have little leeway with this & the school are unlikely to be keen as they are a good student.

I believe my only parental right might be to withdraw them from RS sometime in year 9. And then presumably they won't sit RS GCSE which is "compulsory" at their school.

Is this right? Any other ideas? And how to go about withdrawing from RS (I don't believe I need to give a reason?) and when it might be sensible to do it?. Do I need to get it in writing they won't put them in for the GCSE or is that overkill?

Many thanks!

11 is a lot these days due to lack of coursework and terminal exams with no mini resits. It is not like it was more than 15 years ago. I think for some children 11 is probably fine. But for others it puts a high level of pressure on which could be counter productive.

For dc, R/S gcse was taken in year 10 I think and they could opt out of FSMQ (extra maths qualification).

It was at my DD’s school too but I went in to the head teacher and got my DD out of it. Her learning difficulties would have made it unfair, and it’s not a required part of curriculum nationally.

Good luck!

Still sounds quite a lot but I like the options they have to do some non exam subjects and get some done before the summer. Neither options for us I don't think. Thanks for sharing.

I very much doubt that school would let them do this. If your child is allowed to drop subjects with no particular need to to do so, they would have to let others do so. They could have lots of children with free periods who would all need supervising. Plus there could be less well behaved kids who might educationally not be able to take all the subjects. THEY would NEED to be allowed to drop subjects and would NEED supervising. Your child would start a club of free period year 10 &11s who would very much need surpvision!

It's pointless though. It doesn't yield a better uni place or better job. 11 is a lot of work, DD did 12 and was on her knees, plus the stress of the exams themselves, timetable clashes, no breaks between papers etc.
9 top grades are plenty, spend the extra time consolidating or getting out and doing extra curricular things. Unless your child has a thirst for all 11 subjects.
I went to an academic grammar and we only did 9.

I know quite a few people have raised this, but in the context of withdrawing from RS I believe the school does need to provide suitable supervision (but not teaching).

So it is quite a specific situation.

But yours (and others) wider point is why I don't think there's any point in asking for him to be allowed to do less options. It's a shame.

For us, education is about more than just passing exams so to be offered more was a plus.

We didn’t have choice of schools (Welsh medium, only 1 in the county) but this was something that we took time to understand before dc started there. This hasn’t been mentioned by @toomanygcses and it seems to have come as surprise mid way through the school.

DS took 11 GCSEs and the WJEC Additional Mathematics (Level 2). They got 11 A⭐️ and a distinction.

English lit and Welsh lit were taken in year 10 as well as 1/2 of the maths (WJEC do maths and numeracy separately). The remaining maths was taken in November of year 11 leaving time to do the additional maths during the remainder of year 11 (2024).

PE and music had significant practical aspects which were completed well before exam season.

Those universities who do take GCSE grades into account do seem to only use the best 8, however for bright children I don’t see this being a reason to not study more.

To be fair I think some of the posts on here where DC have sat some exams in year 10 for example, are from people based in Wales where the system is different. I think they also still include NEA to a much greater degree than in England.

It's very unusual to sit GCSEs early in England in a state school (IME anyway) so to reduce the heavy GCSE exam load (heavier, as PPs have noted, since the reform in 2017-19 removed NEA from subjects such as English and MFL among others – so MFL now has four exams instead of two, as an example) a lot of schools in England are scaling down the number taken.

This has been happening, from my observation anyway, more over the last 3-4 years as schools react to the pressure on students. So while ofc people can post anything they want (!) it's worth noting that unless their comment of “I/my DC took 11/12/15 GCSEs” relates to recent years, it’s a different situation from the one the OP's DC faces.

I would agree with others who have said that the additional maths, and triple science aren’t really much more work at all for a child in the top sets, so I wouldn’t worry about those, they should be v doable (the only annoying thing is a few more maths exams at gcse time). But I don’t think that’s your concern really - just adding another voice to the “that should be fine” chorus.

So your school require that as well as the English maths and science, they take:
1 language
1 humanity
1 RE
2 other GCSEs of any sort.

I agree that seems too much to require of everyone. Usually when schools require gcse RE it is one of the 3 or 4 gcse options on top of the maths/engl/science. But I agree with others that since this is how they timetable it, it’s highly unlikely they’d allow a child to drop out of a timetabled slot unless they were really struggling academically. I’m afraid I have no experience at all of withdrawing from RE, but I’d keep asking around. Would your child be ok doing that?

I would say though, that for both of mine they wanted to take as many as possible as they both struggled to decide what to drop. And actually they both did loads in the end (though RE wasn’t compulsory and only one of mine took it).

One did 12 GCSEs (2 Eng, 3 science, maths, and 4 options, plus gcse statistics and “gcse” further maths). The gcse statistics was taken as one after school class per week by choice by top set students (not obligatory) and they sat it in y10, then the gcse further maths was just done in normal lesson time as they got through the material faster. So 1 gcse a year yearly and 11 in y11. He did really well with mostly 9s.

Second child did the same as the first re the statistics and FM, but also sat an additional gcse in astronomy as an after school class once a week too. He was v keen to do it because it was v interesting and the teacher was great. So he did 1 GCSE in y10 and 12 in y11. He also got loads of 9s and 8s. There were a lot of exams though!

This was this summer, and two summers ago at a comprehensive school in south of England. I know they are very flexible and while they enabled mine to do 12/13 GCSEs, they have friends with SEN or who were just really struggling who were totally ok to work with a customised timetable and sit what they could (baseline for them would have been 9, but I think they were allowed to drop some to take what they could manage).

They neither of them needed that many. But they did take all the extra maths in their stride, and for my eldest who ended up doing maths and FM at a level and getting A star in both and is now doing engineering at uni, the faster pace of maths at gcse was pretty good practice for the intensity of maths and FM a level - though I don’t think absolutely necessary. Probably useful though if he’s going to stay on at the school and everyone else will have also done the extra maths stuff.

And for the extra options - they just really were keen to do all those subjects. Each still had subjects they were sad to drop. A levels are so narrow and a lot of joy and interest came from the option slots at gcse. But I think our schools way of offering them as extras, rather than requiring them as timetabled for everyone, is a better one. Wishing you luck.

Another thought @toomanygcses –does your DC’s school have a very long day? That's a lot of lessons to fit in.

English and maths might be five a week, science two or three for each, 2.5 (typically) for each of five option subjects (inc RE), add in PSHE one lesson a week and PE one lesson a week, plus a couple of hours of form time and that makes about 36 hours of lessons, which is more than seven a day. Even i science is six lessons a week it's still 6.5 hours a day. When I taught in school we had five (hour-long) periods in a day. We did finish at 3.10pm but then we only had 30 mins for lunch.

My DC who took 10 covered the triple science work in double lessons plus missed one lesson a week of something else (core PE or English IIRC). Otherwise it would have been impossible.

It has been pointed out more than once on this thread that GCSE content in England and they way they are assessed has changed over the last few years, and it really isn't surprising that most pupils don't sit 11 subjects.

What you or I did umpteen years ago is totally irrelevant and can't be compared to today's GCSEs.

DD is currently at masters level and from experience I know that universities would far rather see 9 or 10 excellent grades at GCSE rather than grades slipping because the pupil has sat too many subjects, and the same at A level - 3 excellent grades rather than 4 less than stellar grades.

One extra point that’s worth bearing in mind. When the numbers for “how many GCSEs do students take” are quoted, those numbers won’t include the “gcse” Further Maths that some take, as it’s not actually a GCSE but a Level 2 certificate. So that won’t ever show up. And if, like our school, they take GCSE statistics a year early, that wouldn’t show up either, as the tables show the number of GCSEs sat by a student in one summer. So my child who took 12 would be showing up in the table as having taken 10, as one was FM and one was stats taken in Y10.

So while it’s still a small number, the number of kids sitting those extra gcse type things is going to be larger than what the data tables say.

Thank you! I agree a more reasonable baseline with options to do more would be ideal.

There definitely aren't loads of additional subjects my son wants to do. I was the same as him at that age... I seem to have turned out ok. It's lovely yours enjoyed so many subjects tho, good for them!

I don't really get this either tbh. Not a long day no, finish 3pm. Two weeks timetable so maybe that's how they do it? I have wondered that also.

Two-week timetable doesn't give you more lessons tho. That's actually why I said 2.5 hours per GCSE option – when I taught in school we had a two-week timetable with 2 lessons one week and three the next in option subjects (like mine).

Maybe the school has a lot fewer lessons timetabled for English and maths. Or maybe they allow two hours a week for options. Hmm. IMHO five hours a fortnight was not really enough to cover the current MFL KS4 curriculum, so an hour less would be really not OK. I guess you could ask the school how many lessons per subject.

Just checked and has 5 hour long periods a day and it doesn't change in year 10/11

I will ask about this, thank you!

How did she do 13? It's 9 or 10 at our school and I don'tsee how they could fit any more into the timetable.

Edited to say genuinely curious, not accusing you of lying!!

Back in the day (2016), DD's Secondary Modern did split GCSEs.

So in Y10 she took maths, triple science, computer science, PE and RE

Y11 she took further maths, statistics, eng lang, eng lit, Spanish, history, geography

This system contained a fundamental flaw for pupils wishing to study science A levels, which I'm sure you can all see - but apparently the school had not 😂

I can see how the 11 fit into the timetable. DD’s school’s standard offer is 9. Combined science (2), English(2) & maths + four options that each get 5 hours/fortnight. At her school further maths is taught as an after school option. Triple science either requires an option slot or after school option lessons (this is known as period 6). They can only have 1 after school option so max of 10 (or 10 + home language). Triple and further maths possible, but you’d have to use an option for triple. This keeps the max number down. They have the standard 5 lessons/day structure.
If top sets do triple in the same number of lessons as combined & further maths is either done in lesson time or after school you can run 11 with the same time structure.

It sounds hectic to me!! But thanks for explaining how it is done 😊

@Owlbookend "If top sets do triple in the same number of lessons as combined & further maths is either done in lesson time or after school you can run 11 with the same time structure." Yes this is exactly how ours works. RS takes a whole option so swings and roundabouts with the triple science I suppose. Students can take 8-11 subjects on this timetable but that doesn't mean a top set student wanting to do triple science could just do 8 IYSWIM.

But that suggests that triple at @toomanygcsess DS's school is either an option (I infer not from what they have posted) or done as a twilight – is that so - worth asking the school.

Also your figures don't take account of RE which as a full GCSE surely needs 5 lessons x fortnight like the other option subjects. It's one thing to do the short course in an hour a week but not the full GCSE IME.

I still can't make it add up (sorry! giving this too much headspace haha). IMHO 2.5 per week is the min for options such as MFL, history etc (so 25 a fortnight for five options); even with only four lessons a week for maths and English, one a week for PE, with effectively five options that makes 43 hours over a 50-hour fortnight – which leaves seven for triple science, or 3.5 a week for three sciences. Surely that's not enough? How many lessons would be usual (I don't have a triple-sciencer at hand to ask rn).