School has basically said my DD is becoming a different child and I don’t know what to do

[MarthaMumParker]

I’m not sure if I’m overthinking what the school said or should be more worried.

My DD is 14 and in Year 10 and she’s never really been a behaviour problem before. She’s moody and argumentative with me and DH, spends too much time on her phone etc but nothing beyond normal teenage stuff.

At home she’s quiet. Funny when she’s in the mood, dry sense of humour, and easy enough to live with.

She’s middling academically, good at English and humanities, not great at maths. She’s never loved school but has always been capable and generally does her work.

Anyway since they went back there’s been a change and school have contacted me twice.

The first was about her phone. Apparently she’s been refusing to hand it over at the beginning of some lessons and has started answering back to teachers.

I spoke to her and she was basically “that teacher already doesn’t like me”.

I said well maybe that’s because you argue when she tells you to put it away.

She said she was explaining why she needed it because she was expecting a message. Which I don’t believe tbh, it was from one of her friends.

I told her to hand it over and get on with it. She rolled her eyes.

Then this week they contacted me again and this one bothered me more.

They said she has been leaving lessons. Apparently she’s been going to another part of the school and spending time with a group of Year 11 girls.

DD says it’s because she doesn’t like one particular teacher and knows she’s going to “have a go at her” or put her on the spot.

She says the girls are just friends and she isn’t wagging lessons with them as such. But obviously if she’s leaving a lesson without permission then she is.

I asked why she didn’t tell the teacher she was struggling and she said she has, but the teacher says she’s being difficult.

There are two sides and I wasn’t there.

What’s unsettled me is that school seem to think this is becoming more than a couple of incidents. The head of year apparently said her attitude has changed and that she seems increasingly disengaged and they’re concerned because this is quite different from how she normally is.

That surprised me because at home she seems normal.

She’s still doing her homework. She was asking me about GCSE options and what she might do after Year 11. She’s still seeing the same friends outside school.

She still tells me random things about school, although she “hates school” whenever I ask if she likes it.

DH thinks school are making too much of it.

His view is basically that she’s 14, she’s discovered answering back gets a reaction and she’ll grow out of it. He said he was exactly the same at that age.

I’m not as relaxed about it.

I remember being 14 and sometimes “just teenage behaviour” is something else underneath.

The older girls are what I keep thinking about. They’re Year 11 and I don’t know them. DD says they’re nice and basically the only people at school she feels comfortable with. She says they don’t tell her to do anything.

I’ve seen her messaging them but nothing alarming. She does seem to be on her phone more than she was before the summer though.

Sorry, should have said she’s known some of them vaguely for a while, it’s just become more of a friendship recently.

There are little things in what DD says that don’t add up, although I don’t know if that means anything. She told me yesterday she’d been in the library with them, then later said they were in another corridor because “the library was full”. I asked which corridor and she said I was interrogating her.

Could just be a 14 year old getting annoyed with her mum though.

I’m stuck really, honestly now.

Part of me thinks I need to tell her very clearly that whatever her issues are with this teacher, she cannot just walk out of lessons. There are proper ways of dealing with it.

But I’m wondering if I’m missing something because she does seem different according to school, and they see her all day whereas we see her at home.

I don’t want to be one of those parents who automatically believes their DC over every teacher. But I also don’t want to just tell DD to behave herself if she is actually struggling with something and this is how it’s coming out.

She isn’t saying she hates the whole school. It seems very specifically connected to this one teacher and the older girls.

We have a meeting with her head of year early next week and I don’t know how to approach it.

Do I go in basically saying she needs to stop the behaviour and that’s it, or do I ask more questions about what they think has actually changed and whether they think there is something else going on?

Has anyone else had a teenager who was basically one child at home and a completely different one at school?

I’m not looking for people to tell me my DD is secretly an angel because she definitely isn’t 😂 I just genuinely don’t know if this sounds like ordinary Year 10 boundary pushing or if I should be taking the school’s concerns more seriously.

It could be teenagers hormones, but I would take seriously what the school are saying. It's serious enough that they have asked you to go and see them. When your DD is walking out of class, where is she going is these year 11 girls, , and why aren't they in a lesson?.
If she has an issue with this 1 teacher I would want to understand why, is it just that the teacher is standing firm and your DD doesnt like it - I would maybe guess thats the issue!.
Phone usage, obvipulsy a difficult one ! - are you sure you know what's shes looking at? .

I think I would ask them what changes they are seeing because she hasn't changed at home and see what they say.

No, I'd take this seriously. My big concern here would be some kind of grooming. Girls do get stroppy, but the school sees hundreds change each year. For them to flag it suggests they are very concerned that this is more than the usual growing up angst.

To me there are huge red flags here

1. shes walking out of class in the middle of lessons!!
2. She’s refused to put her phone away during classes
3. she’s on her phone more often.
4. she’s hanging around with older girls.

I don’t understand how you can think you might have to get more evidence from teacher about her misbehaviour. She’s admitted she’s done the things the school have accused her of.

You should be going into the meeting with the attitude of - how can we work together to ensure she starts following school rules and yes taking the schools concerns very seriously.

Do You know what she’s doing on her phone? My first action today would be establishing new rules about how long she’s allowed on her phone. With my DDs all phones went in the kitchen at 9pm and stayed there until the morning.

Year 10 can be tricky emotionally and mental health wise especially for girls in my experience.
The new friendships and reluctance to hand over her phone are worrying.

She can’t afford to be just leaving lessons when she feels like it and I’d be supporting school with preventing this behaviour. Alongside this I’d keep chatting to her and reminding her she can tell you anything.

Thanks, yes I think the bit about where she actually goes is what I need to get to the bottom of. I’ve asked DD and she says they’re usually just in a corridor or one of the common areas, but then I’m thinking why are these girls not in lessons either 🤦‍♀️ I suppose that’s something I need to ask school rather than just taking her word for it.

And yes I agree about the teacher. I’ve been wondering if it’s actually just that the teacher is stricter with her and DD doesn’t like being challenged. She says she feels embarrassed when she’s asked questions in front of everyone, but she also gets very defensive when I ask exactly what happened, so I don’t know.

The phone thing is probably what worries me most tbh. I know what she tells me she’s doing on it but obviously I don’t know everything she’s looking at. She’s always been on it a lot but it definitely seems to have increased since going back.

I think you’re right about asking school exactly what changes they are seeing. I’m going to try not to go in already deciding whether DD or school are right and just listen to what they actually say. Because at home she really hasn’t seemed different, which is why this has thrown me so much.

Do you have access to her phone?

Skipping lessons is not normal behaviour for most teenagers. You need to look at her phone. It sounds as though something is going on.

ex teacher

I think it’s worth finding out more.

it’s not uncommon for teens to think a teacher hates them when actually the teacher is just doing their job (or sometimes actually quite likes them but can’t allow them to just do what they want)

internal truancy - wagging lessons but staying on school site - is a massive issue these days and I’d want to know where she is going and why.

the year 11 girls may be just friends or there could be more going on.

School know what is and what isn’t normal for 14 year olds. They’re used to average teenage rude and grumpiness - and they can see this is something else.

The first thing that came to my mind was grooming or bullying via the phone - probably Snapchat?

@MarthaMumParker honestly what jumps out at me with this is smart phone addiction.
It's increasingly common and has a profound effect on concentration and attitude that's amplified in the school.setting with kids of this age. Research is showing it's leading to behaviour changes similar to ADHD.
You will have hell but I think you need to tackle this first. Brick phone for school if necessary for safety etc and restricted access to smartphone at home.
Short term pain for long term gain as with any addiction.

This is worrying. I am a teacher and most year 10 are really trying very hard at the moment because they have got to be grown up and start GCSE. For some, that concept is anxiety inducing and behaviours creep in. We are right at the start of term so this is very worrying. If she’s missing lessons then she is missing content. If she gets on a back foot then she will feel worse the next lesson. Also, why haven’t they handed their phones in? County lines is a big issue and it starts small. She could have an agreement that teachers will warn her if they are going to ask a q so ‘Sarah, I’m going to ask you in a minute for a sentence explanation on photosynthesis - have a think and I will ask you next’. Likely the year 11s are known to SLT and HOY so intervention now before she is too emeshed is better. Oh and check bags for vapes. They generally hide them in toilet ceilings but vaping is big. That is likely the reason for truancy.

That has crossed my mind tbh, especially with how much more she’s on her phone lately. I’ve not really thought of it as grooming as such because she’s never been secretive about having Snapchat and I’ve seen some of the conversations with her friends, but obviously that doesn’t mean I know everything.

I don’t want to start imagining the worst either, but I think I probably do need to have a proper conversation with her about who she’s talking to and what’s going on. And I’ll mention it to school as well and see if they’ve noticed anything else.

The bullying thing is interesting too because DD keeps saying she’s fine and nobody is bullying her, but then she also says she doesn’t like being in certain lessons. I’m wondering now if there’s more to it than she’s telling me.

I would recommend a meeting with both her and school. They can ask questions of her that won't allow her to give you a different version of events. They can also discuss what happens next. Whatever is underlying it, you all need to get to the bottom of it. With all of you in one room, she will find it difficult to dodge the situation.

You have access to her phone? If not you need to have it and also set up parental controls (it’s called screen time on the iPhone - presumably android has something similar?) also do you have filtering enabled on your home wifi? Your ISP can enable this? It sounds like you don’t have much visibility on her internet use - she’s 14 not 18. She’s a child still.

Ask for a meeting so you can get everyone's pov of what's going on. You need to be firm with your dd: if she skips classes or doesn't hand in her phone the consequence will be that you will confiscate her phone. Just be matter of fact. Tell her you are there to support her if something is going on but she has to abide to the same rules as everyone else.

What consequences has she faced for her behaviour at school?

On the one hand, this is a recognisable pattern of behaviour that isn’t massively uncommon in high school (I’m a teacher) - older girls trying to get out of lessons, meet on the corridors etc. It’s a small minority but I see it happen every year. On the other hand, the girls who do this also tend to fall behind academically - especially in GCSE years - and get into a bit of a spiral of poor behaviour. So I would disagree with your DH. It does need to be addressed. It’s good the school are flagging it early.

I would take your dd’s assertion that teacher doesn’t like her with a dose of loving scepticism. It may be that the teacher is the only one who is pulling her up on her leaving lessons - others may be just letting her go ‘to the toilet’ or whatever reason she gives. She may be the only one applying the behaviour policy properly. To your dd this may feel like dislike. Of course there may also be more to it. I echo others’ suggestion that you meet ASAP with HoY and DD, and then also with the teacher, to talk openly about it and send a signal to dd that it is being taken seriously, ‘it’ including her feelings and experiences.

I also agree with confiscating phone if she will not hand it over at school.

Yes I do have access to her phone, although I probably don’t check it as much as I should. She has Screen Time on there but I’ll be honest I haven’t really gone through all the settings properly. I need to have a look at it again.

We do have the wifi filtering on at home, but obviously that doesn’t cover what she’s doing on her phone when she’s out. I think I’ve probably been a bit too trusting because she’s never given me a reason before to think she was doing anything she shouldn’t be.

She is still only 14 though, so yes I agree I need to have more visibility. I don’t want to be reading every single conversation she has but I do need to know who she’s talking to, especially now.

As for consequences at school, she’s had a couple of detentions and apparently her phone has been taken off her in lessons. Nothing more serious than that so far. I’ve told her there will be consequences at home too if she keeps walking out of lessons, but I think I’ve been treating it as a bit of teenage pushing boundaries up until now.

I’m probably going to be a bit firmer about it after reading these replies tbh.

The problem with Snapchat as I understand it, is that the posts disappear. Also, children get addicted to it.

I’m now retired from secondary teaching, but recall instances of children screaming that they couldn’t put away their phone ‘because I’ll lose my streak!’

I also know for a fact that it was used for both grooming and bullying. I was in middle management and had to report both to Child Proection.

@MarthaMumParker sounds like you are doing the right things re: internet. The best protection when she’s outside the home (other than screen time) is to make sure her phone provider knows the contract is for an under-18 - that can enable other protections, although if she’s using someone else’s WiFi it doesn’t help.

i wouldn’t normally advocate heavily screening a 14 yo’s phone (when I occasionally check my dds phone I’m mainly appalled by her misuse of grammar ) but in the circumstances where school thing something is wrong (and you feel they are coming from a helpful place) a closer look might be warranted

I think I’ve probably been a bit too trusting because she’s never given me a reason before to think she was doing anything she shouldn’t be.

This really stuck out for me. You hear so many parents saying they thought their child was ok at home so had no worries about them, then something awful happens and they wonder why.
As a pp said, she’s 14 not an adult. You should know what she’s looking at/ talking to on her phone.

The walking out of lessons is pushing boundaries. But you could see boundary pushing as teens testing the boundaries, to be sure they’re still there. Call me old fashioned, but I think (and observe w kids at school), that boundaries, clearly and calmly applied, let them know they are safe. It doesn’t do them good to be allowed to be boundary free. I teach a gorgeous Y11 class, many of whom were v disruptive when they came to us in Y7. They know now what will and won’t be tolerated, they know staff care and part of that is not letting them run riot, and they are so much calmer and happier (not in a masking way, before someone bites my head off - they are warm, jokey, keen). So maybe your daughter pushing boundaries is all the more reason to make those boundaries clear.

As a secondary teacher, I would firm up on boundaries & consequences. Limits on her phone for sure - if she’s being defensive, then she’s got something to hide. Everything you’ve said suggests she’s hanging out with people who are not a good influence.
Grooming, gangs etc - it sounds v far-fetched to some but this is exactly how it starts!
i would ask for some details regarding the behaviour & influence of these Y11s - if they are sitting in the library instead of lessons because they are helping her through an anxious moment, fair enough. This sounds like they are deliberately bunking lessons to meet up - usually in the toilets!! - to socialise, usually vape, phone other people, send messages…
You say you don’t want to read every message she sends, but she is breaking your trust with her behaviour, and so I would do exactly that at this moment, so she knows that her privacy is a privilege that she can loose. she is a child. 14 is a child, legally, so you as the parent have the right & responsibility to protect her. Until she grows up & sorts out her attitude, treat her as you find her. She lies/twists the truth, she has consequences.
This age group is v vulnerable & I would be worried. It is likely, because school is calling you in, she is in the wrong crowd & things go south incredibly quickly. You want this stopped immediately in my experience!

To add - ask the school about these other students. They can’t give details, but could explain the sorts of behaviour/incidents in more detail. They will be in the know with who they feel is a dangerous influence!