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Bottom set in English

100 replies

Awcw1234 · 04/09/2026 15:29

Just looking for some advice.

My daughter has just started Y8. She is dyslexic but just about managed to meet expectations in her SATs (well almost… scaled score of 99) with the support of a private dyslexia tutor. In Y7, English wasn’t set but in Y8 there are 4 x set ones, 5 x set twos and 4 x set threes (large school).

My daughter has been put in one of the set 3 classes. I have been in touch with the Head of English as I was unsure as to why she has been placed in this set. She is exceptionally well behaved (not a single bad lesson score in Y7) and she has scored average in all her assessment, hit her targets and nothing has been raised to me as a concern.

Naturally, I have concerns about set 3 such as behavioural issues and her not reaching her full potential due to the content being taught. I have however been reassured that all pupils follow the same curriculum and she will be challenged.

The Head of English feels like set 3 is the correct class for my daughter. She will be able to get more support as there are only 16 children in the class. Apparently she has been placed in a class with calm children who although are chatty at times, are keen to do well.

She has suggested giving it a two week trial to see how she gets on. She is happy to move up her to set 2 but unfortunately due to timetable clashes, the only class she can be moved to has 28 children with lots of children with challenging behaviour.

My concern is the that by staying in the bottom sets, she will struggle to get out of them and she won’t be pushed to meet her full potential (I’m not expecting miracles but I would like her to score at least a 4!).

What would you do? 😟

OP posts:
NorthXNorthWest · 05/09/2026 13:43

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2026 01:00

Apart from the fairly obvious that it's also in the school's interest to get a child that was so close to the expected standard that it was down to getting 24 marks instead of 25 to a 5 (and seeing as one mark more would have had a 5 at GCSE as the minimum standard?

The process of groupings - and, as I said, they are not necessarily grouped in high/mid/low, it is often high/others/others or all/all/need TA support for some children/finds a large class difficult or allocating a dyslexia specialist - is something that takes extended planning.

The sort of things that are taken into account include assessment data from Y7, behaviour, KS2 data, CAT4 data, SEND, physical access, the number of TAs available, external tutoring or internal intervention support and their availability, how the timetable bands, blocks and clusters are set and how this cascades to the individual classes.

The En block will usually determine the groupings for similar subjects such as Drama, History & RE, sometimes MFL (but not always when there are two languages on offer), the Ma block at KS3 determines Science, IT & often Geography, then there are other blocks from which the PSHE, PE, Art, Food, Music and other classes are derived from.

You also have to take into account working patterns of staff, classroom maximum sizes, access requirements, equipment, physical location (to avoid having 340 of 1600 kids having to sprint from one end of the site to the other and up and down 5 flights of stairs during lesson changeovers whilst staff have to ping pong across the site in the opposite direction), particular specialisms and every pastoral requirement - there could be students who must not be in classes together, ones that need additional EAL support who are going to be helped more by being in a class with an EAL specialist to work with them (or will have a separate reallocation), part time/dual registered students who need to be able to access more than just English and Maths because they do that at their Hospital School, ensuring that what's offered is financially viable and doesn't mean you need to hire 3 new specialists on the first day of term, etc.

And then you repeat this process for the other 4 years (including sorting the options on the basis of preferences, reserves, ability, staffing, kids not responding, parents putting down Music and Dance and Dance as the reserve when you can't offer both as they are in the same band, parents disagreeing with their child's choice, etc) and two for 6th form. And then create the allocation exports, populate the fields and import them into the MIS (whilst also building the Pastoral Structure and determining whether a straight promotion into the next year is appropriate with a small number of exceptions or manually populating the structure for each of 1600 students).

Chuck in the MIS upgrades, all the other tasks required and it's a massive, massive task made harder by conspiracy theories and people misinterpreting standardised naming conventions and carefully considered decisions made with the interests of the child and their education foremost as 'My child is in the bottom set, they've already been written off/schools are bad'.

You have listed many reasons a child lands in the set they are in, staffing, timetabling, SEND, TA availability, class sizes, finances etc. There are going to be some pinch points which mean that the set assigned might not actually be at the right academic level or match their potential. I don't think we are being completely honest if we don't acknowledge that, at times, due to pinch points, politics or some other reason, a child may be allocated to a set that is less that ideal.

So I don't think a parent asking questions to understand why a decision has been made is a bad thing. It can help dispel the myth that a particular set is where children are put to fail, or it can identify that a child might need more help than is available within the school setting. A lack of transparency should always be questioned.

Beepalarm · 05/09/2026 14:14

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IdaGlossop · 05/09/2026 14:16

IdaGlossop · 04/09/2026 19:06

What an unhelpful comment from the dyslexia tutor, and an insult to English teachers. As secondary schools are measured partly on Progress 8, any teacher setting pupils up to fail would be engaging in sabotage, a career-limiting move.

As a PS, I met up this morning with a friend who is a retired English teacher. She laughed at the idea of teachers setting pupils up to fail in bottom sets.

cestlavielife · 05/09/2026 14:17

Awcw1234 · 04/09/2026 16:15

Yes, we intend to arrange a tutor. We are waiting to see if her old dyslexia tutor can fit her in.

My other worry is her getting stuck in set 3. I’m being given the opportunity now to move her up but this may not be possible in the future.

Is it possible she can still achieve a 4/5 in English in the lowest sets? Does this even happen? I don’t want her being given low targets.

Interestingly, she came home today and told me she enjoyed her first class. She said she found the lesson easier as she was able to put her hand up more and received more help than usual. I asked about behaviour and she said everyone was well behaved. She also told me that she was taught the same as her friend who is in set 2 (she walked home with her today and they discussed English as they both enjoyed the lesson).

Sounds fine.
Keep an eye and discuss after half term
If she is happy in class that s a positive

Beepalarm · 05/09/2026 14:18

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Beepalarm · 05/09/2026 14:20

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Awcw1234 · 05/09/2026 14:48

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State, why?

OP posts:
Daisy54 · 05/09/2026 15:00

Awcw1234 · 04/09/2026 15:33

Easier said than done. Her dyslexia tutor (who works in both secondary and primary schools) has unfortunately put doubts in my head as she said they are pretty much set up to fail in the bottom sets.

My son started off in the bottom set, however, due to his exam results, every half term, he was fast tracked to the second to top set.

I believe he benefited from the small class size. Yes, there were behaviour issues with some of the other children, however, he remained focussed and worked hard.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2026 15:17

NorthXNorthWest · 05/09/2026 13:43

You have listed many reasons a child lands in the set they are in, staffing, timetabling, SEND, TA availability, class sizes, finances etc. There are going to be some pinch points which mean that the set assigned might not actually be at the right academic level or match their potential. I don't think we are being completely honest if we don't acknowledge that, at times, due to pinch points, politics or some other reason, a child may be allocated to a set that is less that ideal.

So I don't think a parent asking questions to understand why a decision has been made is a bad thing. It can help dispel the myth that a particular set is where children are put to fail, or it can identify that a child might need more help than is available within the school setting. A lack of transparency should always be questioned.

You missed the overriding principle. carefully considered decisions made with the interests of the child and their education foremost

Otherwise, they'd just be bunged into class EnAC, EnDG, EnHL, EnMS, EnTV and EnWZ, etc on the basis of clicking the alphabetical list and they would never change. Always with the same kids who happen to have surnames in the same range, concentrating kids of particular origins in some classes due to common family names in their demographic, no consideration for what would be right, just what their birth certificates or passports/parental ID said.

It would make timetabling a whole lot easier, but it certainly wouldn't be in the interests of the kids - or the school who directly benefit from the child's educational needs being the most important factor in this prolonged exercise.

Hooper56 · 05/09/2026 15:21

I really would not get stuck on top set and bottom set ! The set they suggest is smaller, less disruptive and will be paced much better to suit her. The class with 28 clearly won’t be as good for her and into l that is a mistake - trust the professionals and move on from thinking bottom set = bad grade / stupid. That really isn’t the case as often it’s the speed it can go at and whether the child can cope with more disruption. A smaller class size is key for a dyslexic child and I say that from
experience with my son !

Hironess · 05/09/2026 15:30

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NorthXNorthWest · 05/09/2026 17:55

You missed the overriding principle. carefully considered decisions made with the interests of the child and their education foremost

It's a great principle, and absolutely what we should be aiming for. I just don't think it's necessarily something that all children, particularly those with an SpLD, experience consistently in practice. Even the Government acknowledges that SEND provision isn't working as well as it should for all children, hence the upcoming reforms. Whether those reforms will actually improve things is another matter entirely, and a whole different thread.

PinkFrogss · 05/09/2026 18:54

4 bottom sets is a lot and definitely an indication that bottom set does not automatically equal a fail at GCSE. If you are concerned but don’t want to ask the school directly then check previous years GCSE results - do they have a high proportion of failure at English GCSE? You’d be expecting somewhere between 20-30% failing based on those set numbers, depending how many are in each class.

Call me cynical but I’d be skeptical of her tutor - is she saying DD’s school are setting her up to fail English to ensure you continue paying for tutoring, thinking it will be the only way your DD can pass.

Awcw1234 · 05/09/2026 21:09

PinkFrogss · 05/09/2026 18:54

4 bottom sets is a lot and definitely an indication that bottom set does not automatically equal a fail at GCSE. If you are concerned but don’t want to ask the school directly then check previous years GCSE results - do they have a high proportion of failure at English GCSE? You’d be expecting somewhere between 20-30% failing based on those set numbers, depending how many are in each class.

Call me cynical but I’d be skeptical of her tutor - is she saying DD’s school are setting her up to fail English to ensure you continue paying for tutoring, thinking it will be the only way your DD can pass.

In 2023, 90% of students scored a 4 or above with 28% scoring a 7-9. In 2025, it was 78%.

OP posts:
PinkFrogss · 05/09/2026 21:31

Awcw1234 · 05/09/2026 21:09

In 2023, 90% of students scored a 4 or above with 28% scoring a 7-9. In 2025, it was 78%.

78% scored 4 or above, or 78% scored 7-9?

Theworldsgonemadagain · 05/09/2026 21:33

I wouldn't be worrying it's way too early. My dds school only puts them in sets in year 10. If my child has dyslexia I'd prefer them in a smaller class if I were you.

Awcw1234 · 05/09/2026 21:44

PinkFrogss · 05/09/2026 21:31

78% scored 4 or above, or 78% scored 7-9?

90% in 2023. 78% in 2025. 4 or above. Sorry, website is down at the min!

OP posts:
SmallDFartyCarNRG · 05/09/2026 21:47

One of my DC is dyslexic and started Y7 in the bottom set. By Y9 they were in the top. Currently the GCSE doesn't look at spelling issues unless it means something totally different and comprehension is key. DD hates writing because of her spelling but has a huge vocabulary, which has really served her well with English exams. Keep reading to her to keep the vocab up and reassure her that spelling won't be a huge deal.

SmallDFartyCarNRG · 05/09/2026 21:54

DrumsPleaseFab · 04/09/2026 21:18

This happened to my son, who has dyslexia

came out with a 6 in Language and a 7 in English Lit (having never read a book by himself, but they read the list with them)

we still marvel at that to this day 😄 it was SOOO not on the cards

He got a lot of extra help in the bottom set. Schools really often put effort in to get the kids who are on the cusp of failing, safely into a pass. I would say they put more effort getting kids from 2and 3s to 4 and 5s than getting kids with 6s to 8s iyswim some then even overshoot the target

if the school is a decent school I would trust them on this

j

Completely agree with this - same DC was a maths whizz in Primary, put in set 1 and fell down to set 2 Y10. Began to hate maths, school fine with it as she was predicted over a 6 so didn't see the need to put any more effort in. I would have rather they shone in a lower set and got more attention and care in teaching than rushed through everything without any help and told to just "look it up" if they didn't understand. Schools will be all in to get them to a 5 or 6, it's often much harder to get help when they reach that.

Sunbringer · 05/09/2026 22:46

I was in set 3 until year 9. My SATS were good but we just didn’t question it. In year 9 I won the best in English award out of 400 students and went on to get a BA and MA in English (A* at GCSE, A at A level).

If she works hard she can climb higher and the set won’t hold her back. Set 3 sounds more supportive of that.

DanceMumTaxi · 05/09/2026 22:53

I think this sounds like the best place for her. Of course children can pass English in a lower class. In my school the English pass rate is around 90% so many in the lower classes definitely pass. She’ll get so much more support. And it’s not always true that the bottom end are badly behaved. I’ve had some very challenging middle ability classes and some delightful lower ability classes over the years. It’s all about adaptive teaching now too, schools have to provide the same ‘diet’ for all pupils and adapt the lessons accordingly so that children can access the work and achieve.

fashionqueen0123 · 05/09/2026 23:03

Awcw1234 · 04/09/2026 16:15

Yes, we intend to arrange a tutor. We are waiting to see if her old dyslexia tutor can fit her in.

My other worry is her getting stuck in set 3. I’m being given the opportunity now to move her up but this may not be possible in the future.

Is it possible she can still achieve a 4/5 in English in the lowest sets? Does this even happen? I don’t want her being given low targets.

Interestingly, she came home today and told me she enjoyed her first class. She said she found the lesson easier as she was able to put her hand up more and received more help than usual. I asked about behaviour and she said everyone was well behaved. She also told me that she was taught the same as her friend who is in set 2 (she walked home with her today and they discussed English as they both enjoyed the lesson).

That sounds much better for her then? She’s also only year 8. Plenty of time to move up. But I’d be pleased with a class of 16 and more help if english is something she may struggle with. It may lend her to getting a better grade.

Awcw1234 · 07/09/2026 15:32

Thank you for all who have taken time to respond. For those that are interested, I asked the English head of year about GCSE results for those in the lowest sets. She explained that most achieved grades 4 or above in both Language and Literature, with some achieving grade 6s. The school sets a minimum target of grade 4 for all pupils to encourage higher aspirations, with most targets ranging from grades 4–6. I found this reassuring.

OP posts:
DurhamDime · 07/09/2026 17:33

Pp’s who’ve said being top of her class being beneficial for her confidence are 100% right.

My DD was moved down a set in maths.

Originally she was a bit sad and disappointed in herself.

However the difference in lessons and speed at which things are taught has meant she enjoys it so much more, and even though (same assessment as other sets) she gets very high scores now she’s asked not to move up.

Id advise you ask the school more about the difference in the sets and if there’s any potential difference in outcome and if not then it sounds a great fit for her.

Greaded · Yesterday 08:14

Our eng is unset. But.. they do seem particular still about who is where.

I think eng sets very different to maths. Because of the F vs H in maths.
Also mine is set 2 level for maths and even though there was sets 1-5 set 2 has definitely covered less work etc.

I think set up to fail is very interesting wording because obviously literally the school want the highest % to pass. But if 10-20% fail and are still targeted a 4 because school want positivity…is not hugely helpful. Personally rather hear you think my kid will fail so as to get them to put more effort in. Or prepare them that they may have to retake or if they do fail they can understand they may not get into any 6th forms as minimum required maybe 4/5 maths eng.
Also interesting because (my kid is now y10) they picked a subject at gcse which their target was only a 4.. so now wondering if likely to score even less…

Anyway back to the set up to fail as apparently that can mean sabotaging or putting someone in a no-win situation where they cannot succeed because the task is designed or handled poorly.
I dont think that but do think being out in the bottom (so perhaps some kids feeling they are crap at the subject) and as dyslexic it may depend whether they are suited to being with kids -some who may struggle a lot. So could be a class where several cant read at all?

But then for comparison my kid in a mixed ability class of 30 where say 30% may fail so 9.

There are kids at our school who got very high eng reading sats despite dyslexia so would hope schools arent just assigning those with sen to lower sets

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