Grammar school or local comprehensive for a bright Year 2 child?

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Just wondering about Grammar schools. My son has just finished year 2 and without effort it seems (his school do no homework etc at this age and he missed a lot of school due to an operation and much illness prior) has got greater depth/exceeding expectations at everything (core subjects like maths, science, Spag etc and including all additional subjects like Geography/PE/RE) with the only exeption writing where he is expected.

Thinking very early about secondary schools and whether it's worth it to try for grammar schools which seem to be so highly competative these days or just go with our local comps. Not sure what the best way forward might be. His teachers say he is naturally bright and he apparently at 7 has the reading age of a 10.5 year old, but is naturally bright enough for grammer school or do you need lots of tutoring for years prior to get the scores to pass the exams?

We want him to be fulfilled and happy and don't want to pressure him with extra study/tutoring too much, as want him just to enjoy his childhood, but at the same time, don't want to regret it when he gets to that age if we haven't prepared him and he wants to go down that route.

He naturally loves to learn but also don't want to put him off either! We have a good comp near us though it's very large. Grammar schools are accessible via train. So just some thoughts really for and against on pro grammar schools and pro comps and how what to do for the rest of primary really! And indeed is yr 2 pretty easy to get those higher scores for anyway? Thanks 🙂

They don’t really grade like that across the board in a primary school. Year 2 is far too early to be thinking about year 7. A lot can change between now and then and you would need to look around schools and see where you feel the best fit for him will be for him then.

There’s grammars and there’s grammars. Some are super super selective (Tiffins for example), others less so (Kent for example). Some in between (maybe the Birmingham ones). So no straightforward answer. Wait and see once you’re in year 4.

Actually I think teachers can spot naturally bright pupils immediately and from very young. DS was similar and got bursaries to private schools at year 7. He didn’t need much tutoring we only did a few months of practice and to check no gaps as schools don’t alway cover everything that’s on the tests. If they are naturally very bright then you don’t need to do much. the main thing is to keep reading for pleasure. Teachers always commented they could tell DS read a lot outside school and usually you would expect this to show in their writing.

We do grade like that.

How do you mean they don't really grade like that across the board at primary schools? Do you mean how they graded each subject? It was the same for year 1 too in his school though maybe not for all? The achievement (below/met/above) effort (3 categories too) for each, comments for each then general comments from his teacher and head. I guess it varies across primaries? Thanks though - I do realise it's early, but we are in the process of moving house so what schools are catchment etc are on our mind! Obviously I guess he could change as he gets on and not do so well in KS2 or may not want to pursue grammar options etc, or go with friends to a comp, just interested in thoughts .

Once you are in Year4/5 look round the actual schools and see what you think. My son could have gone to grammar, but didn't want to bother with the journey (the comp is a half hour walk door to door, the grammar would have been a 20 minute walk and a 30-40 minute bus ride). He is happily settled working with lots of students, including a number who are of his ability or slightly lower/higher in different subjects. The comp he is at works hard to stretch and challenge these students.

Having said that, I do know other kids who are doing well at the grammar. I also know of kids in other comprehensive schools who are as able or more able than my son, and aren't being challenged enough by their schools.

We're West Midlands so it would be the Birmingham/Sutton Coldfield grammars. Thanks good advice to assess at year 4.

What is the cohort like in comprehensive in the area? If most of the more able go to grammar schools then you'd be best off going for a grammar school. If there are plenty of other bright children in the comps then it matters less.

I'd definitely be thinking now if you're moving house. I wish we'd thought more carefully about secondary schools when we moved and our DD1 was only 6 months old then. I probably would have gone for a grammar area.

We didn't start thinking until year 3, and were prompted to think about options by DD1's year 3 teacher, who didn't think our local comp was the right option for her.

That's really helpful, thanks. Sounds like you have a similar DS. A private bursary i an interesting idea too - thanks! True about reading. His teachers have commented that they can tell we read due to his vocabulary & now his reading and understanding. We have read every day to him since he was a baby - and kept on top of phonics then hearing him read every day. But that's it really. Haven't done any extra work, tutoring or homework, and autumn term he had the worst attendendance due to health problems then an op. I was worried he'd get really behind but his teacher said it was like he hadn't missed any school at all. He also naturally seems to enjoy tests and exams - they do accelerated reading tests which he loves and seem to enjoy the year 2 Sats they did that we weren't told the results of but were more just for the school/teacher I think. So unless that changes I think that might bode well for 11 plus type exams/yr 6 SATS etc. Of course he's so young, so who knows!

Thanks that's a helpful viewpoint about your son thanks. We are likely moving to about a 7- 10 min walk away from the best rated comp in our area, whereas the grammars would be a train ride and a walk to the station away unless we moved closer. So distance definitely comes into play. Want him to have plenty of chill time and time to do outside school activities too rather then spend a lot of time travelling. On the other hand as you say don't want hom to not be stretched/bored. Sounds like your son's at a good choice.

Thanks. Did your daughter go for grammar then or another option? It's good that the teacher was thinking about your daughter's options. The comp we are probably moving to a 10 min or less walk away has a good mix of children including bright ones. A lad we know got fab A levels there. On the other hand another one found it far too huge for them and is now home educated. This worries me, as DS I fear might find the leap from a very small and lovely primary to a very large comp hard.

I agree you are approaching this very early; I also agree that Year 4 is a good year to reassess. It sounds positive though with what you say about his reading.

In respect of your last Q, it's quite easy to get GD for Reading, harder to get it for Maths and very difficult to get it for Writing.

With all school choices, I'd visit and talk to your tour guides/ current parents. You can generally get them to forget the corporate message and tell it like it is. I know of comps and grammars that have both got problems, and children who've thrived at the former and not at latter. The only advantage grammars may have in themselves is that the majority of children in them should want to learn and do well, which won't always be the case with the children in a comp.

Grammar school. I don’t know your area, but it sounds like he’d enjoy it.

Teachers can spot academically able kids and the ones who somehow just know how to “do” school. He’s unlikely to become less naturally able as he gets older.

I have two kids - dc1 is like your son. She can turn her hand to anything at school. She ended up at an excellent comprehensive but ONLY because our nearest grammar is an hour each way whereas comp is 25min walk.

Distances from school mean far less when they are 11. My dc has friends who travel in from the next town to her school. She is now heading into y11 and I haven’t had any hand in her schoolwork for over two years - she’s totally independent, loves school, heaps of friends.

Finding school easy is a wonderful gift, and makes parenting a heck of a lot easier to be honest (my dc2 finds it all so much harder, and it’s a very different joruney).

We are also in the West Midlands, within reach of Birmingham, Sutton Coldfield and Walsall grammars.

My DD was like your DS in primary. An early reader, found everything easy. Her Y2 teacher mentioned he being of grammar potential, and when she was in Y4 we directly asked her teacher whether she might be a good fit (we have no prior experience of grammars and she is our only child) and the teacher said it would absolutely suit her.

Like you, we focussed on reading in primary - reading aloud to each other most evenings and discussing the meaning, looking up new words in the dictionary etc.

DD was getting frustrated with the pace at learning towards the end of primary and was very keen to go to grammar. In Y5 we did home preparation for the 11 plus and she passed with a high score and had her pick of the state grammars. She's at Sutton Girls and loves it.

Of course it's early days for your DS, but he sounds similar to my DD at that age, and your approach sounds similar to ours. You don't need to do anything special until at least Y4, but keeping up the reading with plenty of discussion will stand him in good stead.

Well if there are grammar schools, there are no real comprehensives, so that's not really the option in front of you. But I'd say not to get too preoccupied by this at year 2.

We've gone private. The area we moved to has one comprehensive which was good when we moved, but went into gradual decline and was known to be pretty awful by the time we got to it and was ofsted rated inadequate.

We should have either moved to a grammar school area, one with an excellent comp (there are a couple in the wider area that have been excellent for at least 30 years and that draws in excellent teachers) or an area with some level of choice.

I'd say absolutely have it in mind at this stage. My DS was in Y2 when his teacher asked us if we'd considered grammar as he was on the right track.

I'd say carry on as you are. Read with him and to him as often as you can. Encourage curiosity in all areas - museums, art galleries, theatre, music, interesting TV programmes. This doesn't have to be expensive - there are lots of free/cheap events if you look.

At the start of Y4 have another think - you may need to get a tutor, or start looking at tutoring at hope with practice books etc. See what sort of tests the different schools require. Visit them all in Y5, along with the comps - have a range that you would be happy with.

In the end we went private with ours, but the prior input did not go to waste.

What are the distance/postcode rules in Birmingham? In some counties, admittance to grammar is based on location and not just score in the entrance test. Worth looking at if you might be moving.

No grammar schools in our area so we have also gone down the independent route. DS is a bright boy and although I am sure he would have be fine at the local comp, we wanted him to be in a supportive environment where he has access to lots of extra currics, trips and experiences and not have to spend his lunch break queuing for food. He is really looking forward to staring in a few weeks' time.

@CreativeGreen that is indeed the case in a fully grammar area such as Kent, where pretty much everyone sits the 11 plus and 1/4 or 1/3 of students go to grammar.

However, in the area where the OP lives, there are very few grammar schools which take <1/10 of students, and most students don't even take the test. The comprehensives in this area are considered true comprehensives.

I take the point, and I suppose to be fair one could argue there is no such thing as a comprehensive in any situation where there's a choice, including private, free, or religious schools - but I do think 'comprehensive' isn't the right word where there is an option, however rarely taken up, of grammar schools.

Dd1 was always at greater depth, aced her 11plus and sailed through the grammar system easily (now at Durham uni) - if you’re always at greater depth throughout that’s a good sign imo - other dd was always at ‘expected’ so she didn’t take the 11plus as didn’t think was worth the stress. She’s done fine, but much more ‘average’ results which was reflected in the ‘expected’ level at primary.

he sounds smart - go for it, but not yet! Ex did nothing til yr 5, then a small amount of test prep.

You're correct, @SheilaFentiman, though it's not particularly restrictive. Anyone living in within Birmingham City Council areas is in catchment for a King Edward VI grammar, and the Priority score is very achievable. The boys' grammar in Sutton Coldfield (BVGS) has just been consulting on introducing a catchment area, but it is wide - 12 miles' radius. The girls' grammar in Sutton Coldfield and the Walsall grammars haven't introduced catchment areas. Of course, they might do in the next few years.