Watford grammar boys v.s. private schools (MT, HABS)

[Smilingapple]

Hi my son is doing 11+ this year and haven't got the results yet. Private school entrance exams are yet to start next month. However I'd like to ask for some opinions about the schools we are considering. My son is very musical and he's applying for music scholarship from the private schools. He's more of an all rounder than being super academic. We went to visit Watford boys and were really impressed. It felt like they run the school in the same way as a private school and the boys we met on the open day were all very well mannered and confident. However can I please ask some honest opinions if it's still worth sending my boy to Private schools like MT or Habs? Obviously Watford boys is only partially selected whilst the other two are 100% selective. Thank you!

We had a son at Merchant Taylors (and a girl at Habs girls). Certainly a good few parents do school schools like Watford Grammar at this stage. My own view is it is worth paying for habs etc and they are better, better grounds, ethos, better off parents, entirely selective.

However I know people with very different views and children can do well from both. I only went to fee paying schools and my children and their cousins similar so I suppose for us state schools were not something we wanted.

Watford boys is fantastic.

Thanks both for your input! @Pomelo1980 is your son at Watford boys?

Yes, excellent academic and pastoral support. And Better results than the local private’s

Go for the grammar OP- there are so many musical opportunities in and around London for musical DC, you don’t need the private school for that. Plus my DC’s friends at private schools with music scholarships are always complaining that the school expects them to be in every orchestra even if it doesn’t benefit them directly and that they end up missing academic lessons for free music lessons etc etc. Grammar has shorter days too typically so more time for music practice and as long as your local offering and music teachers are good, that is a much cheaper way to do it. Plus still time for Saturday orchestras without private school sports pressure/matches.

Also check out the too long holidays in the private schools… unless this is something you want. It can be 4-6 weeks extra a year and if you work, it is a right pain

“Better off parents” - you know your children at some point will have to go out into the world and mix with people from a wide range of backgrounds / incomes?

There are plenty of sound reasons to choose a private school but I’d say the lack of diverse backgrounds is a disadvantage not an advantage.

A close relative’s son had a music scholarship at MT and had a great time there and did very well, but they are rich so the fees did not impact them (still very nice house, cars, lovely holidays, enough into savings and pensions etc). So it really does boil down to how much money you have and if you are not going to miss the extra cash that goes on private school.

Depends on the schools @PeterPomegranate - the privates in and around London are extremely ethnically diverse because lots of Indian/Chinese/Nigerian etc parents prioritise education above most other things. So depending on the area the grammars can be less diverse than the private schools. Plus if you look at the free school meal quotas of most grammar schools, it isn’t actually a cross section of society, not in the least.

There’s more to diversity than ethnicity though.

I agree the private schools in NW London / Hertfordshire often have white pupils as a minority (certainly our local private school does).

Although to be fair Watford Boys leans very much towards middle class parents too.

Thank you so much for everyone's input on this.. I know the debate between grammar Vs private can be neverending and it all depends on how everyone sees it. To be very honest before I visited Watford boys, I had my heart set on the private and same as our son. However Watford boys truly impressed me and my son also liked it very much, especially the music department which is what we put focus on apart from academic. The only problem is that Watford boys is partially selected and if compared their results to Habs/MT, still not as high rank. It's interesting to hear you say that Watford boys results are better than local privates. can you please let me know which table you looked at? @Xenia @Cosyblankethottea thanks a lot for your advice based on people you know! The level of the commitment in music being a music scholar is indeed what I'm not sure about. Sometimes when it's too much it could have the opposite effect on kids interest. Oh well! We're still yet to get the result and he's still to sit the private school entrance exams! We'll see what offers he'd get then will make our decision! Thanks all again! X

The main difference is wether your child can get into the Grammars.. If t hey cannot they tend to go to Private.
This persepctive comes form having a chkd at the Grammar and also talking to collegaues who have friends at MT.

If your DS is not super academic I might go for independent option. My children are very academic and they are at full grammars but they are in the top handful in their year groups and get enough individual attention and challenge because of that. Friends with less academic DC have opted for independents similar to the ones you mention and are happy with them. Also, music wasn't a big thing for mine. They play music to decent grades but it was has never been of special interest for them. That might push me towards independent too.

Actually I wasn't the one saying Watford Grammar (which is not really a proper grammar as it is not entirely selective) has better results than the academic private schools. I just assumed it did not. Someone else might have suggested it did.

I don't agree that only those who could not get into the not really a grammar school Watford grammar only go to private schools in that case. Lots of London parents have more than enough money to pay fees and prefer to pay fees. My children and I and my siblings have never been to a state school. That is not because I have anything against them but we just don't need to and I think many of the children in the more academic private schools WOULD get into Watford grammar.

Habs boys 2022 got about 52% A star at A level. Watford grammar only got 25%.

It is not really a fair comparison as Habs is 100% a selective school and Watford grammar is not however.

I have nothing against Watford grammar by the way. I just was putting the pro private school point of view.

What about Parmiters they have spaces allocated for musically talented children

I am not considering grammar schools unless we really can’t manage private fees. For me it’s not about the results, it’s about the extracurricular activities, good facilities, guidance and the fact the students get to construct an identity beyond their exam results.

I wouldn’t consider a selective state school because I went to one and my whole self esteem has been tangled up in my (plentiful) academic achievements. The education was good, but that was all I got.

MT looks fantastic as does Habs for DS although I’m watching what they do with the scandal that came out last year and if I had to pick right now, would probably send DD to RMS or Berko girls instead.

@PeekabooAtTheZoo different perspectives and all that but in South Bucks RMS and Berko are generally the fallback options for girls if they don't pass the eleven plus for the Bucks grammars. For boys the fallback is Berko. The grammars there are pretty good at turning out rounded DC.

www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/18782300.former-haberdashers-askes-boys-caretaker-jailed-drug-ring/

Thank you so much again everyone for all your input! It's interesting to see so many different opinions about schools! My son's SW consortium 11+ results came out couple days ago, he scored really well in both academic and music, both well above the cut-off marks from the previous years. Tbh for us it's not the academic results that we solely look at, because otherwise we'd send him to QE which I'm so sure that it's not the right school for him. I completely agree with some of you mentioning that it's the facilities, the extra curriculum activities and pastoral care that are available for the kids, that's why we were impressed with Watford boys. We have two boys although we can afford sending both to the private schools, but it'd mean that we won't be able to support them much financially in future e.g. buying properties or paying university fees if they choose to study abroad.. the debate about private schools seems be to no ending..they definitely provide better facilities and give more individual care because of the funding and size of the class, but it's not a guarantee that the kids going to private schools will be more successful in life. That's why after we visited Watford boys I found it a challenge to justify the fees! But you could also argue that vice versa if he went to MT/HABS, then he could have done better with more care and support compared to Watford boys due to the smaller size. How I wish this country was like Scandinavia, where it doesn't matter which school you go you stand equal chance! Lol Anyway he's still got the private schools entrance exams to go, we still have a good few months to think about it. Who knows he might not get any private school offers which would leave us a very straight forward decision!

We live locally so know this story. I would not call it a scandal - and I feel badly for the school, who was extremely unfortunate that a member of its grounds staff took advantage of his tenure, and used the home provided to him in good faith, by the school. The caretaker was part of a ring that was supplying to the counties (not to the students). It was a huge betrayal to the school and the community.

The school handled it as well as these things can be handled, and I was impressed to hear from current parents that Habs discussed it sensitively with older DC, about the real human story, cost, and tragedy behind what they were hearing about someone who was part of their community.

Also this happened before the pandemic - in 2019, not last year.

As a past student of watford boys between 2014-2019, I would urge any parent not to send their son here. The level of care pastorally and socially is disgusting, this may be different to what you experienced, but you must think about how the school gets its funding, through the influx of students and so would do their best to paint best picture possible. I have two younger brothers in the school currently who tell me stories of students getting “jumped” or attacked by other students in various years. The gang culture is becoming infamous and was prevalent in older years before I joined and ever increasing since. Some teachers are brilliant and really do care about students academic and social wellbeing, however I would argue these teachers are in the minority. From an academic standpoint, the school is good, the results speak for them self, as a public school they produce good results, held up through certain talented students. However, socially the school is terrible and the amount of bullied students and/or victims of physical attacks is crazy and seems to be increasing. I myself was bullied and subject of various attacks not just from students in my year, but older and younger years. My siblings ran into similar troubles and have different stories everyday. I understand from the open day that you were very impressed with what you saw, however the students who showed you around were in year 8, it is compulsory to do this for the school, and if there are bad reviews from parents from what the students may have described they are given after school detentions for “serious misrepresentation of the school” however, these students I would argue fir the majority are speaking truthfully. I know this was certainly the case for me and my brothers (one of who is in year 9 now and thus did the open day last year).
I have done my best to give you as much of an insight of the school from the perspective of an ex-student and current students. I would recommend the private schools if you are adamant these are the inly school in consideration. From a public school perspective, St Clement Danes is probably the best public school in Hertfordshire and NW London for a variety of reasons