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Secondary education

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Original poster

South Norwood, Secondary Black Hole?

27 replies

Psychologika · 10/03/2022 09:35

We live on the border of South Norwood and Crystal Palace, and if you don't want a Harris school and you think your kid would hate Kingsdale, there seem to be no other options other than the Norwood school.

This basically means I have one school for the list. I feel like we're in a back hole as the area is so dominated by Harris Academies!

Any other options I might have missed?

OP posts:
minisnowballs · 10/03/2022 10:05

Sydenham Girls if you have a girl? Forest Hill Boys?

Original poster
Psychologika · 10/03/2022 12:51

We have a girl. I think we are out of Catchment for Sydenham Girls

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gogohm · 10/03/2022 12:51

I grew up there and went to Purley.

Original poster
Psychologika · 10/03/2022 14:39

Which school in Purley

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Filthycop · 11/03/2022 22:02

Hi, we live in South Norwood and I agree with not liking the Harris thing - our DD went to a Harris she did Ok but DS was not going to go there! The main reason was the very restricted GCSE choice and that they start GCSE in Y9 so miss a year of general knowledge in subjects that they may not take. We chose Shirley HIgh for DS partly because a language at GCSE wasn't compulsory and because they allowed more choice and didn't start GCSEs till Y10.

We were actually impressed with Shirley High - but it went into requires improvement while he was there and the Head changed shortly after - then lockdown within the new head's first year. They are working really hard to fix the issues but also dealing with covid.

DS was bullied and had a miserable time at primary school and Shirley was very inclusive and nurturing. He wasn't bullied and learned well - there were keen enthusiastic teachers and although it is a shabby school he was comfortable and they seemed to have education not image. There were teachers who had been there for years - whereas there was a high turnover at Harris.

Locally in South Norwood, I have friends happy with Eden Park High. I have a friend who is happy with Chestnut Grove and others happy with Oasis Shirley Park. Also a friend who's daughter got in to Wallington Girls. I also have friends in local Harrises - some are happy, some aren't.

My DS started Brit school in Y10 so his GCSE work is there and TBH although we were very happy with Shirley and found it much better than Harris, he is being pushed more at Brit and feels he was allowed to coast at Shirley - though it is hard to know as they might have put more pressure on in Y10 once the work GCSE started.

schooladmission · 11/03/2022 23:19

prioritise education not image

minisnowballs · 12/03/2022 10:51

Sydenham's waiting list often moves quite fast - it's honestly worth putting it down if you like it as it is a massive school, and girls only which often means a bigger catchment. it is at least another one you could add to the list.

NinaDefoe · 12/03/2022 10:56

What do people think of the Norwood school?

BettySundaes · 12/03/2022 11:02

Burntwood in Earlsfield?

The Norwood has a good reputation especially if you are arts/drama oriented.

OnlyTheBravest · 12/03/2022 21:27

You may have to look a little further away.
Oasis Shirley Park
Oasis Arena
The new school Ark Blake academy
Shirley High
Langley Girls

HavfrueDenizKisi · 14/03/2022 09:15

@OnlyTheBravest

You may have to look a little further away. Oasis Shirley Park Oasis Arena The new school Ark Blake academy Shirley High Langley Girls
You're not going to get into Langley girls from Crystal Palace.

Agreed it is a black spot. Either Harris; Kingsdale which has some magical admissions criteria that are so opaque no one has any idea; or heading to Shirley. Friends in that area got Coloma. Sydenham girls is a possibility but you may be pushing it catchment wise.

youllneedthisfish · 14/03/2022 09:25

I have had DC at the Norwood. Ultimately it didn't work for us, BUT; I do think it is a good school. The teachers are lovely, the leadership is strong and hands-on, the facilities are brilliant especially if drama or arts are of interest - and it's not too big: they know your kid. There are some lovely kids and some disadvantaged kids really keen on learning.

They have to deal with some really serious stuff there, and the situation of the school itself was a large part of the problem for us. When we had messages that kids aren't allowed to hang about near the school, or in the park, or at the shops, and must go straight home, but not through particular estates, it really brought it home to us that shit gets real in secondary school. But that's the case in most areas realistically.

youllneedthisfish · 14/03/2022 09:27

Sorry I should explain- my DC has SEN and wasn't mature enough to get there on his own, and is socially very immature. so very specific reasons to us that Norwood didn't work out. I still know parents there and kids who are doing really well.

RebeccaManderley · 14/03/2022 09:34

I have family members at Oasis Shirley Park. They are happy there and also did not want a Harris school. Many of their friends from Primary, which was at Crystal Palace, happily went to Harris schools. I also know people who find the Harris schools in Bromley good. I agree with the above that you will definitely not get into Langley Girls. I would have thought Sydenham Girls also unlikely.

NinaDefoe · 15/03/2022 08:28

@youllneedthisfish

I have had DC at the Norwood. Ultimately it didn't work for us, BUT; I do think it is a good school. The teachers are lovely, the leadership is strong and hands-on, the facilities are brilliant especially if drama or arts are of interest - and it's not too big: they know your kid. There are some lovely kids and some disadvantaged kids really keen on learning.

They have to deal with some really serious stuff there, and the situation of the school itself was a large part of the problem for us. When we had messages that kids aren't allowed to hang about near the school, or in the park, or at the shops, and must go straight home, but not through particular estates, it really brought it home to us that shit gets real in secondary school. But that's the case in most areas realistically.

That’s worrying. I can’t find anything in the news. Problems with the local area or in the school itself?
NinaDefoe · 15/03/2022 08:29

@youllneedthisfish

Sorry I should explain- my DC has SEN and wasn't mature enough to get there on his own, and is socially very immature. so very specific reasons to us that Norwood didn't work out. I still know parents there and kids who are doing really well.
Just seen this. So the area?
youllneedthisfish · 15/03/2022 08:47

@NinaDefoe -ts s couple of years ago now - pre Covid. Not problems in the school and they are really engaged with all this

There are gangs in South London. At one point there were (quite rightly) lot of interventions and talks with the kids about gangs and not carrying knives. A school age child was killed in a knife crime less than a mile from school on more than one occasion ( I think one may have been a pupil but others weren't). This is as it should be given that it was actually a problem in the area immediate to the school (certain estates). Not even necessarily the kids at that school!

When your male child gets to 13+ they are the ones likely to be mugged for their phone. - If they are lucky enough to be middle class they are unlikely to become part of a gang or even to associate with kids that are - they know who the bad kids are; but it's still fucking scary.

I must stress that this counts for kids from the Dulwich privates schools as well as Kingsdale. They are all very close to one another geographically. My kids had a bus and a train to get home to the other side of Dulwich.

I'd choose Norwood over Harris any day in a heartbeat

BettySundaes · 15/03/2022 14:03

@Psychologika - you do need to consider transport, commuting distance and safety of route when looking a bit further afield to avoid the Harris schools.

That said their are ways in with schools that offer scholarships (Chestnut Grove in Balham has arts/language) for example.

Also both Wandsworth and Lambeth boroughs will some good but undersubscribed schools that mean your distance isn't an issue. As mentioned above Burntwood is a good girls school with fab facilities but there are others (check the Council websites for previous years data) which you may be able to tap into.

onewhitewhisker · 15/03/2022 20:05

OP, if you think Kingsdale and Harris are not right for your DC you may find Norwood a good fit. This was the position we were in and Norwood has been great.

area/ crime wise - my experience is similar to youllneedthisfish - DC in all schools in Lambeth/Croydon/Lewisham/Southwark are vulnerable to these issues, Norwood is certainly very on it and the local park is generally well populated and safe.

Eeve · 16/03/2022 11:03

Yes, we will apply for Norwood. I wont go for Ark or Oasis, either, as its Academies I have an issue with!

She is sitting the exam for Wallington, but it is quite a commute. I think that we're going to end up going private, which is a real shame. I just want a regular school that's not run on business principals.

Eeve · 16/03/2022 11:04

Also, Langley would be incredible but there is ZERO chance from CP. We are also too far from Eden Park and Sydenham Girls.

SamBeckettsLastLeap · 16/03/2022 11:07

Just being nosey, what is the problem with Harris academy's?

PettsWoodParadise · 16/03/2022 14:01

If within 9 miles of Newstead that would be an option? Lewis coaches have various routes from Croydon and Beckenham to both Newstead and Olaves.

youllneedthisfish · 16/03/2022 14:19

@SamBeckettsLastLeap Harris Academies- Google and make up your mind but the reputation is very disciplinarian, very 'results at any cost' - and that can include excluding kids that really need help but aren't going to bring their grades up. The schools tend (not all) to be a Harris takeover of a very failing or disadvantaged cohort school - and the 'turning around' of that school is achieved in some ways that not always sound great (understatement). The most compelling thing to me is first hand knowledge of staff at Harris schools - they are very high staff turnover because not pleasant places to work (and that's not because of the cohort - plenty of teachers enjoy the challenge of disadvantaged areas and kids)

Original poster
Psychologika · 16/03/2022 19:30

@PettsWoodParadise that is incredibly helpful. We are just within 9 miles, but thought I wouldn't get her to sit the exam purely based on the crazy commute. The commute to - Wallington Girls would be an hour, but we're putting her in for that.

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