AS dilemma - is 5 subjects too many??

[overthehill]

My ds did very well in her GCSEs (mixture of As and A*s) and thought she had put down to do 4 ASs (Eng Lit, History and Sociology at her school and French at partner school). When she got her timetable, however, she had been put down for French and German at the other school. She could do both and didn't have any great desire one way or the other, but the question is, is this wise and would she risk spoiling her chances of good grades/a good social life? She is likely to want to do English or History at university and is only just starting Sociology so this is a bit of an unknown quantity. Any advice gratefully received - thanks!

I think it's a lot. My DD has just done AS levels in French, Eng Lit, Eng Lang and History, and French was more work than the other three put together. Apparently this is normal for languages AS/A2 - all have a lot of reading, coursework etc.

All five of the subjects you mention require a lot of independant reading and research, which isn't to say your DD isn't up to it, particularly if she's bright, but the advice we've had from school is that a more is not more in the eyes of university admissions people - better to do do fewer exams and get higher grades than more exams, and risk lower grades.

If your DD doesn't particularly want to be a linguist, my advice would be to drop one of the languages.

at dd's school the children who chose 5 arts and language AS subjects tended to regret it, including dc with straight A* GCSEs. Unless she's prepared to work insanely hard and forgo some social things it would probably result in lower grades imo.

5 is usually a bit much (unless the fifth is something like GS) so unless she really wants to then I would say perhaps not.

If she did want to try, you could always do so on the basis on a review after a few weeks, with a plan to drop one if necessary

She will not find that five give her any advantage over people who have done four when she comes to apply to uni and if she overstretches herself and gets lower grades she will actually find it a disadvantage. Focus on four really good qualifications for the best chance later on!

I agree with the advice above (4 is plenty!) but want to make sure your clearly bright daughter is aware of the reputation of sociology A level at Russell Group Universities? I'm not saying it is a deserved reputation but facts are facts. Languages are much more highly regarded. Of course an A in sociology is probably better than a B or C in German/French.

Thanks for all the advice so far; that's basically what I've picked up but I thought a broader perspective would be good. She's good at expressing herself on paper and did very well in the essay subjects at GCSE, and she does work hard - but also wants a social life. Blueemerald has hit the nail on the head in terms of my reservations as dd is really interested to try Sociology but she's worried that there might be people in the class who think of it as a soft option and therefore aren't willing to work hard/join in discussions, and I did think that this might be the one to drop. However, if she doesn't want to be a linguist then maybe two languages is too much, and she's worried that she's not good at dropping things once she's started them.

English lecturer here: I'd strongly recommend dropping Sociology and keeping both languages. Lots of reasons for this:

• If she wants to study English or History at university, languages will be useful in her degree work (and it's worth bearing in mind that joint degrees with a lanugage are often a bit less competitive to get into at top unis than single honours English or History).
• People in the UK are traditionally poor at languages; young adults are now competing in an increasingly global job marketplace against multilingual people from other countries, so competence in languages will be a very good thing to have later.
• The intensive support and teaching you get in the VI form is a really good way to learn a language; hard to do it to the same level later. Whereas someone who is well-trained in the methodologies of English and History would not find it hard to pick up Sociology at a later stage, if she still wants to do it.

Sociology is a soft option.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exam-watchdog-media-studies-iisi-easiest-alevel-785593.html

And from my experience there will be students studying sociology who don't take school as seriously as your DD obviously does.

Campergirls and noblegiraffe, thanks so much for your input as well. I did French and German at university (but in the Dark Ages!) so didn't want to feel I was pushing what I wanted rather than what she wanted. And it's just what you say re Sociology, noblegiraffe: when she went to the taster session on Sociology she was a bit put off by the other people there as she felt that they may not be taking school seriously, and none of her friends are doing it. But she is keen on the subject content (loves Channel 4 documentaries on social problems!) so would it be unwise even to start it, do you think?

I think it would be a negligent teacher who pushed an academic student into a less well-regarded subject over a respected academic one. Russell Group universities have issued warnings over this.

If she is interested in sociology, she can always read up on it outside of school, perhaps even take a university module in it when she gets there.

If she drops sociology, that doesn't mean she has to take German. Are there any other options that might interest her?

If she has three traditional subjects (English, History and French) then the 4th subject is not really problematic at all. The Russel Group explicitly states this in their advice.

At the end of the day it is better to get a high grade in a 'soft subject' than a poor one in a 'hard' one.

I shall follow this thread with interest. DD1 has to provisionally choose her AS levels soon. And I'm not convinced she is going to make a wise choice.

What else will she be doing academically as well?

DD1 did 5 AS but one was critical thinking (some kids did general studies but the all did the 5th subject). She also did the EPQ/AQA bacc straddling years 12 and 13.

Definitely better to have 4 high grades than drop a grade because of the extra subject, and with her great academic profile better to keep 2 languages than sociology.

Does her school offer the Extended Project? She could use that to pursue an angle that interests her?

Mine did Fr and Germ ... the offers for MFL at good unis are wonderfully low compared with history and English.

One of the main difficulties about doing French and German is that they are at the partner school, and she feels that she'll have a foot in both camps and possibly the worst of both worlds. They do do Critical Thinking but have not put her down for it, presumably because she's already doing so much, including travelling between the schools (by taxi, along with others). Not sure about Extended Project - think I did see it mentioned somewhere.

Noblegiraffe, we did have a chat about other possible options and RE was one she said she might consider; I think there's quite a bit of overlap with sociology too. I'd encouraged her to think about psychology as lots of her friends are doing that and I think she'd find it interesting, but she thinks it's too scientific and wants to wash her hands of sciences (even though she got A*s for physics and biology and A for maths and chemistry) - but she says that's just because she's got a good memory.

overthehill DS1 is going into Yr13 so a year in front of your DD. He did Eng lit& lang, History, Psychology and Law at AS. He is very, very good at writing essays (got 100% at History, Eng Lang and RE at GCSE) and can express himself very well, but he found that doing 4 AS levels is a lot of work in comparison to GCSEs.

He spent a lot of time doing homework or studying in the library last year. He has a Saturday job, but doesn't go out that much really, and he would have struggled to have kept up with 5 subjects, which is what he was originally down for, TBH.

TTILLR, thanks for that. I think that my dd's original choice (4 minus the German) is probably wise, given that she has to move between two schools as well. I don't feel I can lean on her to drop Sociology in favour of two languages at this stage as she's really keen to try it. Let's hope she either keeps on all four or drops Sociology for Y13.

Could she start 5 just in case sociology turns out as she fears, so she could drop it? And then drop German (or RE) if it turns out her sociology class is ok? Work with a deadline of a couple of weeks or so?

NG, that's what I was thinking, and I agree the very short deadline would be a good idea if the two schools involved can cope with that. If she could take all the subjects at her current school life would be less complicated!

DS is doing 5 ASs as well. But it is all the sciences and 2 x maths so lots of overlap. 6th form have said give it 4-6 weeks but don't put yourself under pressure if it proves too much. At least if your DC starts all 5, they can decide to drop one if they don't like it a few weeks in if it isn't working out. Something that might be worth checking - will they be able to do just one AS at the other school ? Is that why they signed them up for German as well ?

Yes, NW, other kids do take only one subject at the other school. To be honest, I think it might be a mess-up by dd's school as she had originally said that she'd like to consider German as well if she could do it at her school, which was something they were suggesting might happen but then hasn't, then they've just assumed that she would still do it at School B without really considering the implications. Don't expect we'll ever know the full story....

I have no experience of this moving between schools malarkey - but might it be worth waiting to see what the timetabling is like? if it could be blocked so that she has all her French and German sessions together, that might actually work well for her.

Moving between schools is really common around here. All the state schools sixth forms work together in area federations to increase the A levels available. A school can't justify running an A level course for 5-6 pupils, so by offering it to a range of schools they can attract enough students to make it viable. It also means that no combinations are ruled out just on timetabling issues, because you can move between schools to fit your subjects in.

But it is usually better to limit the time spent at another school to one subject otherwise it gets very complicated.