No national planning guidance for giant AI data centres

[Scaryscarytimes]

Why have the Scottish Government not done what they promised to do - after protests by the public they said they would pause planning applications and bring in national planning guidance for huge AI data centres. They're now backtracking.

This blows my mind - what is likely to fuck up Scotland and its residents more than rushing in approval for these massive centres, which use astronomical amounts of electricity and water, as well as causing pollution issues and being a nightmare to live near. They don't bring jobs with them either (apart from in the initial building phase). Does Scotgov just not fancy doing it, because it's beyond their level of expertise / involves some work? This feels like a massive betrayal, which will have enormous - permanent - consequences. Once these centres are in, there will be no controlling or getting rid of them.

And by the way, the plan is for AI to take almost all human jobs over the next few years.

Some background from the BBC. What I've read on job creation is that once an AI data centre has been built, even a massive one, it literally just needs a handful of security guards and an occasional maintenance visit by a technician. Everything else can be done remotely from abroad.
Why are data centres such a big deal in Scotland? - BBC News

Is no-one on Mumsnet concerned about this? Seriously? They have stopped people objecting to the proposed Chapelcross AI data centre, which will be the largest data centre in the world, and have cancelled public consultation meetings.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/26659357.10-000-objections-chapelcross-data-centre-plans/?fbclid

Water is a total not issue. They regurgitate the same water around the centre continuously. I can’t believe you’ve got yourself all worked up without realising this.

It does sound concerning @Scaryscarytimes . I don't know much about it but it's shocking that public consultation meetings have been cancelled. Makes you wonder what they're trying to hide.

And what are your views on the use of electricity?

"the plans face opposition from the Scottish Greens, who say that, if operated at full capacity, the facility would use 7 million MWh of energy a year, equivalent to the energy used by over two million homes."

Please don't waste our time by saying that it'll all be recycled energy so there's no issue. You know that it's not that simple.

Would you like to live next door to the largest AI data centre in the world? If so, you're in luck, because there's going to be plenty of cheap housing in that area very soon.

@Keyboardkaties Please let us have your view on whether you think it's appropriate for the Scottish Government to go back on its promise to issue national planning guidance on the building of AI data centres before Christmas. Do you really think that local councils should be required to make these decisions completely unaided?

I've yet to see any convincing reason for agreeing to have these enormous structures in Scotland. And by the time the Chapelcross one is completed, large numbers of Scottish jobs will have been taken by AI. So it's not as though it's all going to a good cause, is it?

People in Scotland use data. You are using it in your many messages above. I don’t this we should always be ‘off shoring’ the ugliness of life (in this case data centres). Do you think some poor sod in Kazakstan, or Algeria or Kansas or wherever has to live next to a massive data just centre cause ‘scaryscarytimes’ doesn’t want their view spoiled and still wants to use her phone???

What's in it for you, I wonder? I've been using my phone without issues for many years now, as have you. It is the new developments in AI that these data centres are being used for. Those developments are literally threatening to exterminate the human species. I've seen predictions from industry experts of up to 50% likelihood of extermination by super-intelligent AI. And there's also the risk of humans using AI to, for example, facilitate devastating cyber-attacks or biological warfare.

In the meantime, those experts are saying that almost all jobs are at risk.
So the people of Chapelcross will have no jobs, and god knows how or if they will survive, as the Scottish Government clearly have no plan (or ability) for paying even basic survival benefits to the huge numbers of the population who will be losing their jobs very soon.

While they're looking out of their windows at the view of the enormous data centre, having put up with many years of building works, those unemployed people of Chapelcross will be wondering how long they have left before AI decides to finish them off. And in the meantime there will almost certainly be issues with electricity supplies, noise, the water recycling system going wrong, etc. While the financial profit created by the site will go into the hands of foreigners (I see that CXtec are American).

Don't waste everyone's time by pretending that this is science fiction and I'm deluded. It's our current reality - with many experts speaking out about it. Even the very top people in AI acknowledge the risk of human extinction, and of course of most human jobs ceasing to exist as they are taken on by AI, which is largely the point of AI. AI is currently being trained to take over office-based jobs. It's only a matter of time before AI is able to develop robotics to the point when all physical jobs can also be taken over. There currently appear to be no plans by anybody for keeping humans alive, let alone happily alive.

Welcoming giant data centres to Scotland will give Scotland nothing beyond some temporary jobs in construction. And it will contribute to all the above.

This podcast has interviews with people from the industry:

NOBODY KNOWS THIS ABOUT AI?

And here's another warning. Yet you want Scotland to support this by hosting many more AI data centres, including one which could be the largest in the world? And the Scottish government can't even be bothered to consider national planning guidelines.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/technology/artificial-intelligence/killer-ai-has-1-in-3-chance-of-wiping-out-humanity-within-decade-boffin-warns/ar-AA2fZAU7?ocid=msedgntp&pc

God im bored of this sensationalism. Do you want to go on Mumsnet and Facebook? Do you want to buy things online? Do you want the UK economy to keep up with the Nordics and have a hope of competing against China etc al?

In whcih case we need new, modern, energy efficient data centres. My only objection is if they were placed too near residential centres. If they're in the middle of nowhere, sensitively designed with solar panel on the roof, along side motorways etc then I have zero no objections. And the water thing is no sense, they are closed loop systems and use less than a large golf course, which is not closed loop. Do you want Glen Eagles etc shut down?

You can call it sensationalism all you want. That doesn't change the facts. I'm sure you know perfectly well that these enormous new data centres have nothing to do with all the stuff people have been doing online for years. They have everything to do with most of our jobs being taken over by AI, which leaves us - unemployed and with no source of income (the Scottish government won't be able to pay benefits to millions). And are you saying that when many people in AI development are telling us that there's a high risk of humans being exterminated by AI, we should just laugh at them and say they're sensationalising? Even the heads of the AI companies acknowledge there's a risk of human extermination. There is absolutely no regulation.

And by the way, being the simpletons who provide our land for Americans to build their massive AI data centres on doesn't allow our economy to keep up with anybody. The data centres are owned by foreigners, are run from abroad and the profit from the data centres goes straight to the American owners.

Rubbish. They are expansion. There is not difference between an 'AI datacentre' and existing datacentres, except new ones will be built to more modern more energy efficient standards and use less water.

Honestly, I am not saying they are without issue (being too close to houses) but people who dont work in this area, like I do, and don't understand how datacentres operate, have taken a kernel of truth and run wild with it. Everytime you Google something you use AI being served out of an existing 'AI datacentre'. Everything you watch something on Netflix, iPlayer or freeview, including the ITV news. Everytime you buy something in Tesco, Sainsburys or whichever shop, including the local corner shop. Everytime you post something on Mumsnet. Everytume you fly from an airport, or go through the barriers to pick someone up from an airport. Everytime you get to a bustop and look atvthe display to see when the nect one is due.

Unless you live in a cave, with no running water, no electricity and no Internet, you are as complicit as everyone else.

So instead of wringing hands about water usage, which is actually the most non-issue out of all the potential issues, we should be holding government and local planning regulators to account to make sure they put them in areas that won't disturb people's peace. Other than that, its the same as any national infrastructure now.

Proud to see the people of mumsnet are too wise to rise to OPs wild hyperbole. If you really are this distraught OP you need to seek help.

I'd be very interested to know why you're so in favour of data centres - I'm guessing you have a financial incentive. They are extremely unpopular in the USA, where people are experiencing the reality of them. And here they're just being waved ahead, with the government now failing even to produce national planning guidance, as previously promised. Do you agree with that? Why? Scots will have no access to the sites (other than security guards), it will in no way be "our technology", they will use vast amounts of energy (which will be converted into heat and noise), which will go way beyond the availability of recycled energy (but fuck the climate, right, and who cares about power cuts for domestic properties?). I've yet to see any positives for Scotland, other than temporary construction jobs.

And guess what's been happening in Finland? Google has cleared vast tracts of land, against the law but who cares, they just have to pay a few fines, right? This is just the beginning of how those American companies will behave on being given access to other people's countries.

Finland Investigates After Google Clears Forest for AI Site

Is the Chapelcross that used to have the nuclear power station or a different Chapelcross?

It's near the nuclear power station, yes.

I’m not in favour of them. I’m not not in favour of them. I just think you’re being totally ludicrous. I can’t see AI is going to be used for good things. Lots of jobs will be lost. You use data though. This needs data centres. You refuse to see the link. And if you think you can stop AI by arguing against giving data centres planning permission you’re totally insane.

Scottish wind farms generate too much power for the national grid to transport so they are paid NOT to produce power when there is an excess. Power is not an issue. Water is not an issue. Having a massive ugly great building in your countryside might be a drawback but otherwise you're good to go