Cutting off a family member - painful and need reassurance

[Alex4646]

This is a long and sad story about my lovely sister and her husband, my BIL. His behaviour is unpredictable, volatile and frightening. They've been together for years and years, and many years ago I raised my concerns with her even suggesting she should consider whether she is safe. Anyway more recently, she has pleaded with me not to disagree with him, as she says it makes her life very difficult if i challenge his vile shouty outbursts. So I have been kind, understanding and supportive, but finally, after a recent rage, aimed directly and completely unreasonably at me (even though on dozens of occasions, it's all sorts of other people out in public, in a pub, with a stranger etc) i have made the decision to meet up with my sister and gently explain that this is the end of any interaction I will have with him. My long term partner feels the same, and has been shocked at the shouting and raging about insignificant and minor things. Everyone is on edge whenever BIL is around. For clarity: i usually remain very calm but on this occasion, it was so bad while in my own living room, sitting being shrieked at, that I told him to stop behaving this way in my house. The rage lasted between one and two hours. Anyway, the chat with my sister has taken place and although I calmly explained all the different elements that have brought me to this decision, she denied that he was unreasonable or irrational, even though our whole family have used these words about him over many years. I really want an ongoing relationship with my sister, but this is going to take some tricky manoeuvring. Should I have just continued to put up with it! Any advice, or similar experiences, gratefully received.

This sounds incredibly difficult.

If you cut ties with him, would your sister still be able to see you or would he make her life impossible? Has he always been like this or has something changed him over the years? I feel so sorry for your sister, she must be on utter edge all the time. Do they have any children together?

Maybe the realisation she really is on her own with him might make her ltb.

Don’t give up on your DS. She might need you as I expect he is far worse in private.

can you still see her by herself meet up for a coffee something like that once a fortnight?

he’s what’s called a ‘missing step’. Everyone knows the 7th step on the stairs is missing and there’s an unspoken rule that every person just remembers to jump over that step, which you all do by ignoring his abuse. The person who says ‘hey, that missing step hurt me’ becomes the issue within the dynamic so the guilt is heaped on you and everyone can get back to pretending everything is normal. Does your sister not care about someone shouting at you?

We live at other ends of the country so can't meet up frequently. We have regularly video called, but he is always there, effectively on the call, so I have stopped. She tried to normalise his behaviour but I robustly challenged that position, giving lots of examples. She told me that they are always on edge when visiting in case something happens - but actually I believe it is she who is on edge all the time as he is so unpredictable! I will do everything I can to keep my relationship with sis, she is my only sibling, I would be devastated to lose that. Maybe she doesn't feel the same since she can't see what is going on... although he is certainly gaslighting her. It has always been me organising family events parties and celebrations, inviting them to stay, enjoy, relax, eat drink be merry - but this now stops ie SHE will always be invited but not her husband. I guess its up to her how to proceed?

PS thanks so much for comments so far 🙏

She doesn’t have to agree with you. You don’t put boundaries in place to force other people to change their behaviour or their beliefs. You put them in place to protect yourself.

You won’t be around him ever again, end of. If she wants to see you, she will see you alone. If she wants to attend any family events that you also attend, she will attend alone. That’s it. No more discussion about it. She can agree to continue your relationship or she can become even more isolated. That choice is hers. You’ve made your choice.

I have a family member in a similar situation. I put a similar boundary in place. She has chosen to vilify me (I’m a terrible awful person who is punishing her for trying to be a good person and give a man with an awful past a second chance). We have no relationship anymore. Haven’t seen her in 7 years. That’s her choice. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’m very happy with all the peace I have now. My life is very drama free and I have zero regrets.

I suppose it's for you to decide if your comfort is more important than your sisters safety. I don't think either is right or wrong. Being shouted at is awful, for 2 hours too. So was that 2 hours of him constantly raging? I think I would have been calling the police to have him removed before it got that far.
On the other hand, it's likely your sister is a victim of domestic abuse and the last thing a victim of domestic abuse needs is isolation from their family. Are other family members still in contact with them?

This is tough. I think its fine you stop making arrangements to do things together but how will you see your sister if not. Especially as you live miles apart.
Maybe she's scared of him or simply doesn't have the courage to leave. Or has she just got used to his behaviour so its normal to her.
I guess you need to find a way to still have a relationship with your sister before you cut ties with him.

Dont cut her off, he is the problem not her, hes vile controlling abusive man and she knows this, just tell her you will only see her on her own ie meeting for coffee, dont have him round your house and if you are in a family setting and he starts just ignore him, if everyone ignores him he cant rant, why on earth did you allow him to scream in your home for 2 hours that doesnt make sense, shes not going to leave him but if you isolate yourself from her he wins as thats what he wants

I cut off a friend as i went round to see my friend she knew i was coming round and the husband opened the door i asked for her he said eff off and slammed the door and i thought enough of that i didnt see her again and i didnt tell her, she knew what he was like and i thought if shes going to excuse his behaviour then im done

You are not responsible for your sister’s bad decisions!

She may never leave him and he might even cause her serious physical harm, but regardless, you have no control over the situation and pussyfooting around them both is pointless. It doesn’t keep her safe.

She knows you will be there for her if she ever leaves him and that is all you can sensibly do. It’s really up to her.

I wouldn't cut her off but you will see a lot less of her as I susect he is the type of man who will not let her go anywhere without him. Might be a stupid idea but could you write to each other? If he demands to overhear video calls, maybe letters are a way you can communicate with her without seeing him.

Given his behaviour, it clearly makes sense for you to continue to see your sister but not him.

If he tries to prevent that of course that may be the issue. Is your sister safe? He sounds deranged, does he need medical help? Was he always like this?

I think it’s important to keep regular in-person contact with your sister given what he’s like. Do you live close by or does this mean overnight meetups?

is it alcohol induced or his personality? I feel sorry for your sister. She must be constantly in survival mode, treading on egg shells. Are there children in this relationship? Have you had a frank conversation about his conduct? Could you offer your sister refuge/kids if she splits up with the nob?

The problem is that people like him rely on this kind of concern. He knows OP won’t want to lose her sister, so will grit her teeth and keep quiet - or if she does tell him what she thinks of him and refuse to go near him, he’ll try the old “See? Even your own sister is against us” line.

It’s not an easy decision. But I personally would veer towards actively refusing to see him. It won’t change him or his behaviour, but it might force OP’s sister to see what she’s in danger of losing. Putting up with him for her sister’s sake, and to make sure she has some support, means he has no one questioning his behaviour - and that he can gaslight her into thinking it’s “normal”.

You need to get her to leave. He is abusive and is probably doing it to separate and isolate her.

I was your sister, put up with it for 11 years, my friends all abandoned me (how I felt) but in reality they had done all they could for me and I obviously threw it back in their face by going back time after time so they got fed up with me, mine was also a psychotic alcoholic, if my family or friends said anything out of place I would cop it that night, I stopped taking him anywhere and wouldn’t let family visit, she has to help herself unfortunately, let her know there will always be a place for her when she comes to her senses, I left and have now been with the best man for 24 years, Norman Bates eventually died of cirrhosis in his early 50’s, I really feel for your sister, she’s been in the abuse cycle so long she doesn’t know anything different but if BIL had screamed at me in my own home I would’ve stuck a knife in the bastard.

Are there children in the home?

Just tell her simply that you refuse to accept being shouted at in your own home- end of story.

I'd keep trying to keep in touch with your sister, however you absolutely, without doubt, have a right to not be shouted at, particularly in your own home. Your sister is shit scared, of her husband. She's scared to leave him, and the trauma of being in an abusive relationship is making her bury her head in the sand. It's a protective mechanism for her. Keep the lines of communication open. Try and get her to get together a go bag, or if you're able get a few bits together for her, so she has the basics, if she decides to leave. Encourage her to squirrel a bit of money away, a fiver here, a couple of quid there, so she has a stash. Women's aid, are a great source of information for you, and other family members. Are there children in the home? It takes a hell of a lot of strength, to leave an abusive partner.

Your poor sister. It’s incredibly difficult to leave an abuser. That being said, this doesn’t mean you have to put with being verbally abused and you don’t have to have him in your life. Having him around and trying to pretend everything is normal will not help anyone. You and your sister need to have a plan to stay in each others lives without involving him. Regular emails (she could set up a secret address if he is policing hers) meet ups and video calls when he isn’t there, continuing to send her birthday cards and gifts, maybe a social media account he doesn’t know about. Could she stay with you if she eventually does decide to leave him? Gently helping her think about an exit strategy would also be good. But no, Yanbu to set a boundary to protect yourself.

Don't cut her off, cut HIM off. He's not invited. She will probably stop attending but that doesn't mean you cut off with her. Let her know that you refuse to put up with him but you'll be always there for her. She's not really to leave, she'll reach out to you once she is.