How can I feel more included among the school mums?

[Schooolm]

I posted in AIBU yesterday as I was upset regarding school mums - feel free to to read but please can someone answer my question before they read the other thread - how can I feel more included by the school mums? As a group I feel ignored. I know I am thoughtful, kind, caring and genuinely a nice person but I feel excluded by the school mums. There’s one woman in particular who makes me feel like crap which confuses me as outside of the school gate we are actually really good friends! Just this summer holiday for example we have been to cinema just us two, took kids to park, just us met for coffee and she has been to my house numerous times. I’ve never been invited to her house as she said she feels embarrassed as it’s in a state. I’ve known her for around 3 years. So I believe we are friends and her effort outside of school in terms of messaging me and arranging things with me suggests she sees me as a friend.

So confusing thing is when I see her at school. She blanks me! Yesterday she was standing around in a circle without acknowledging me.

I find the majority of the school mums really cold. There is another mum I know who u spoke to about this feeling and she said she feels exactly the same and she referred to these particular people as NPC’s as a joke. I feel a lot of them are very cold.

i feel basic manners are missing like I spoke about in my thread yesterday 3 of us sitting in the bench but the other 2 just keep chatting and not including me in the conversation.

I was never 'in' with the school mums but I would just talk to whoever was there. I invited my DCs friends on play dates and they reciprocated and I got to know those mums a bit more, cup of coffee at drop off sort of thing. You don't have to be best buds you just need to get on with them enough, if any of them become good friends that's a bonus. One or two did rather think they were above us mere mortals but who cares about them.

Youre not there to make friends, take your son school and go home. School playgrounds are toxic for parents , you either fit in or dont. Stop being friendly with the mum who speaks when it suits her, find a better friend.

My guess is that she is trying to get in with the other group of mums and if they start meeting up away from school, she will drop you completely.

Give your son the play dates and keep it light and breezy with the mums.

If she contacts you again asking to meet up, don’t reply by phone. When she is sucking up to the other women at the school gate, go over and say, “hi two faced loony tune (or whatever her name is.) Sorry I didn’t get time to reply to your invitation yesterday but yes I’d love to go xxx with you again. Same time as usual?” Then turn to the others and as if any of them will be joining you this time.

Yep I treat at as a process, dropping and picking up child, not a social event. If someone smiles or wants to chat that is fine but everyone usually so busy with work etc. there are clicky mums at school and I just leave them too it, not for me.

I’ve never been to the cinema with a mum from school! You certainly are closer than average to the school mums, I’d say.

It’s very possible she doesn’t invite you around because her needs for socialisation are different to yours. If I spent the summer going to the cinema and the park and going to someone’s house for multiple play dates, I definitely wouldn’t feel any need to invite them round. That’s too much togetherness already for me. I’m happy to see someone once every month or two, but more than that is too much. I have stuff to do. I think you may need to play a bit harder to get. If you constantly do all the organising, people aren’t going to be tripping over themselves to organise anything else because they’ve already seen you 4x this month.

Also it’s never mattered one bit of I like my dc’s friends’ parents. Their friends are their friends. Their parents don’t have to be my friends. Assuming they are school age (4+), they don’t need to come over with their parents as long as the children are comfortable enough around you. I am happy to facilitate friendships with all my dc’s friends as long as I don’t have safeguarding worries about the parents.

My eldest has a friend whose mum is always drunk and off on coke at a gig. Her 11 year old offered my dd a cider once when she went over. I cooled that right down and she’s no longer allowed at that friend’s house. Short of being a risk to children, friendship has nothing to do with it. I have my own friends though. I don’t particularly want to be friends with the school mums.

My DS primary school mums were really cliquey. I wasn't there to make friends though. DS has just started private secondary and a new mum has set up a meet for a drink evening. I am going along to see what's what but I wont be crying into my cornflakes if they are not my people!

Playdate for who - you or your kid? Playdates are generally for the benefit of the children.

You had loads of advice on the other thread you made. If you're looking for friendships because you feel you're lacking them generally in life, I think you'd be best making friends for yourself. School gate friendships can sometimes be very fragile - a bit like having friends through your partner. They can often disintegrate if their friendships drift or if there's a falling out.

Why would anyone over the age of 15 do this?

If someone is not a good friend, just drop them. Not in a dramatic showdown way, just stop inviting them to do things. Your friends can still be friends.

OP asked how she might be more included. I think that would do it.

Some people are just a bit odd, one day in the future (near or far), something will happen with her and it will be a lightbulb moment for you and you will realise “oh that’s why”, just until then you have to make a decision, carry on as it is or call her out on it. I would do the latter but in a funny way, like hello I’m over here, fancy going to the cinema again? Or go and find new friends and when she asks to meet up simply say you were not sure if she still liked you as you were getting mixed messages. Let her see you engaging with people and having fun, or do it anyway without her knowledge as who cares.

How to make friends, take it easy, bide your time, no one likes a pushy and overbearing person, not the good ones anyway. Be bright, breezy, have no strong opinions on anything sensitive, listen to people and be friendly - also yourself too or youre barking up wrong trees.

I had one person actively asking me what was my job title, car I drove and what road did I live in. I mean blimey, at the time I earnt well but to look at me did not reflect this as I appreciated dressing down some days Balls to them.

This is easier with hindsight OP. My dc are uni age now, but when they were 2/4 there was a woman at the school gates who put her back to me instead of saying hello - I did know her a bit. It was my eldest’s first day in reception and it made me feel like absolute shit and I had a headache due to the stress of the situation. 20 years on, plus menopause, I could not give a shit who doesn’t want to speak to me or what anyone thinks of me. I’d happily stand there and have everyone ignore me. As it turns out, the woman who quite pointedly put her back to me is just a total stuck up bitch who thinks a lot of herself. She wouldn’t have made a decent friend anyway. Don’t try to talk to any of these twits who are ignoring you, your child will make his own friends.

Exactly
They will think shes nuts!
It all comes across as so intense and possessive, perhaps the friend feels overwhelmed and IS avoiding her

The example given of sitting on a bench and had a quick hello etc then the other mums had a conversation and it was terrible and excluding her is just bonkers
People chat with other people who are not me all the time!

I stopped seeing the mums of the antenatal group 3 months post partum as the dynamics were awful. I didnt go for my other children. It was liberating and I enjoyed my maternity leaves enormously. Mums group are genuinely the worst experience I’ve had and I’d rather be alone than having to deal with teenager’s group dynamics. Be free and be the bigger person. Just get rid of them and find real friends.

I don't understand why you don't just ask her.

I really don't think it would, it would sound nuts.

Based on a single antenatal group? That’s a ridiculously small sample to dismiss ‘mums groups’ on. My NCT group didn’t get on either, and we no longer saw one another by the time the babies were a couple of months old, but that’s not been a template for every other group I had dealings with since.

Honestly there needs to be a guide for socialising at the gates! Theres always a few with the school of thought that you shouldn’t care and just get in and out and not bother with friends. But, I think it depends who you are- I’m not like that and I don’t think you are either OP- i can tell. I would find it so awkward to just not intentionally chat with anyone. I think we should all naturally want to make connections with people who are obviously at a similar stage of life as us and its basic human decency to socialise. I have found with the school gate you have to insert yourself in conversation, find something relevant to say or strike up conversation about the weather, school traffic, etc. You can’t wait for people to come to you.

Your friend - not sure if she’s a mean girl - or she’s just secure with you, knows you’re a friend- but she’s trying to grow her circle and concentrating on that during the short time she has on the runs. I find the runs a bit overwhelming sometimes and I’m always aware to say hi to anyone I’m friendly with but it can become a lot if you’re sucked into a conversation with another group. Just a possibility for her too. If your school run has coffee near by, suggest to other mums a coffee meet up, chat outside the school run is way better and more “normal” than during.

If you have not encountered this behaviour before let me shortcut you through lots of nonsense and heartbreak
The woman is a user and the others are unpleasant. You don't want your son seeing how you allow yourself to be treated so avoid them all. A brief, good morning etc then avoid like the plague

My kids are all in secondary school so have been through this all a few times. Some mums/parents can be really mean. I would absolutely not worry about it all and don't take it personally. As someone said above, you are not there to make friends. I would go to as many coffees/nights out as you can and invite kids for playdates if you can. If you are excluded, then I would not worry about it. There could be a number of reasons. Some people are mean, but also some parents just have more in common with some people or have friends in common etc.. Be friendly and don't take things personally and you will make friends!

I’ve never been invited to her house as she said she feels embarrassed as it’s in a state. I’ve known her for around 3 years. So I believe we are friends and her effort outside of school in terms of messaging me and arranging things with me suggests she sees me as a friend. So confusing thing is when I see her at school. She blanks me! Yesterday she was standing around in a circle without acknowledging me

When someone's behaviour is confusing, if what they say or do conflicts with other things they do or say, it can be due to other complexities, but it's usually because they're using you for something.

She says she feels embarrassed because her house is in a state. Yes, that could be true, or, it could be that she doesn't want her own house mucked up by you bringing your kids over, or doesn't want to be the one making the effort to entertain at hers.

She may view your company as convenient, for the above reason and others, but that doesn't mean she respects you or cares for you.

It sounds like this woman is quite status driven, and you're finding out that your so-called friendship isn't deep or strong, given her behaviour to you when others are around.

Be prepared that if you start pulling away from her, she may either accept it without question, or, she may suddenly ramp up the attention she gives you because she wants to continue using you for something. I wouldn't confront her if I were you - don't expect an honest conversation with someone like this.

I'm so sorry you feel like this and you're definitely not alone. School gates can be horrible places.

I've experienced this myself throughout my son's primary school years. The parents are just very cliquey and I've got used to them not talking to me. I've actually stopped caring about it – I just wait for him to appear and off we go.

He doesn't miss out socially – we ask his friends around to play, he goes to theirs. Like you, when I see the mums one-to-one, we chat and laugh like normal people. And then, the second we get to the school gates, it's like I've stopped existing. We don't live in the same area as the rest of them, so I guess it's maybe to do with that – they feel they have more in common with their neighbours or something.

He's due to move up to secondary school and he'll probably catch a bus, so that will be the end of it. I hope he stays in touch with some of his friends, but I can't say I'll miss the parents!

I’m happy for you. That’s reassuring

Most of the mums are already friends with each other. There isn't any point trying to get in with them. Just say a polite "good morning" or "hi" and move on. I barely speak to any and now onto my second child at school.

Ok so you smile and say hello and she says hello back. You complain she doesn’t engage further, but it appears neither do you. Do you go over and join them. Make convo. Or are you wanting her to invite you to do so, or not talk to tne others, but talk to you?