When is no contact with family a reasonable choice?

[donotgettheangst]

I hear a lot about going no-contact with family on MN, and am wondering when one knows if that is the appropriate response to family.

I have a very dysfunctional family dynamic, but one that is probably not that unusual in the culture I come from (Asian) - elderly parents enmeshed with adult children, no boundaries, plenty of judgment and over-involvement on the part of the parents, and therefore hypocrisy, lies, and deception from the adult children. I've tried to break free of that and lead my life without deception and with purpose, and I'm finding it increasingly difficult to maintain any level of engagement with them that doesn't result in dragging me down.

In a (sort of) nutshell, I lost my father in childhood, my mother brought my older brother and I up, worked hard, saved and 'sacrificed' herself (relevant it is part of her self-narrative) for the kids. She never pursued another relationship. She is over-invested in our lives, even as adults, expects to he consulted on every decision. Was very supportive of my professional and academic success (so I owe her a lot), when I had my child she helped with baby-sitting (and loved feeding/cooking for them etc), but then when my relationship (emotionally abusive) broke down, she was distant, cold, judgmental because 'what will people say'. She is ashamed. She has form for silent treatment, until I grovel. My brother meanwhile, craves and lives for my mother's approval, likely has a serious personality disorder (emotional dysregulation), had a marriage breakdown, has had addiction issues (alcohol and smoking, which he lies to my mother about), is a single dad. My mother helps him hugely, paid his bills for years, looked after his child, gives him constant advice (which he takes, while also lying about his drinking/smoking etc). She enables him and he basks in it.

I have moved countries, left an unhappy marriage, have a successful career, a thriving child who I single parent, and a loving partner (five years). And, my mother disapproves of many of these decisions, doesn't like it if my partner stays in my bedroom in my house when she comes to visit, doesn't let me and my partner visit her as we are not married, expects me to come visit her by myself for weeks on end to 'look after her' (she doesn't need this), and thinks I have become 'selfish' and distant. For the record, I show up, I'm there for them when needed, I help financially, I host them when they visit (pay for everything, take gifts etc). I just don't react to her judgment, and consult her on every decision (which she seems to expect). She has recently decided to stop talking to me (three months) after our last conversation in which there was friction as she was getting over-involved in a property transaction decision, and I pushed back. I know she is expecting me to grovel, but I can't/won't, and after the initial trauma of the rupture, I'm beginning to feel relief that I don't have her judgment and constant criticism in my head. I had already gone low contact with my brother - as his ups/downs, alcohol-induced ranting/accusations and lack of support over my marriage break-down were too much to handle.

So, my question is this: I get going 'no contact' with a family in which there is neglect/abuse etc, but is it defensible to go no-contact with a family that just drags you down, offers only conditional love and support, does not respect/accept your autonomy and adulthood, and punishes you for being yourself? Ironically, I am the happiest I've been in a long time - with my child, partner, work, and the life I have created for myself after correcting various mistakes from my 20s and 30s.

"So, my question is this: I get going 'no contact' with a family in which there is neglect/abuse etc, but is it defensible to go no-contact with a family that just drags you down, offers only conditional love and support, does not respect/accept your autonomy and adulthood, and punishes you for being yourself?"

Op, that is abusive.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. I guess it is easier to see from the outside. I am always trying to balance this sense that her behaviour is abusive with the fact that she is a loving generous grandparent to my child, her support for me when she approves of my choices, and her own hard life (became a widow early, devoted herself to her children, worked hard etc). And, her age and the possibility I might regret it if I do go no contact :(

When psychological survival is at stake, yes I think it is justifiable, in fact necessary. I am not sure that is where you are, though? Sounds more that you are strong and have made a strategy for successfully living your authentic life, and cannot and should not compromise as in "grovel" to appease. Would it help to take a "holiday" from the toxic stuff bringing you down? Have an extended break from them, and re-engage when you are ready but in a more healthy way, less enmeshed, that respects you as who you are. It would be the decent thing to do to explain your reasons first though.🌺

If you feel safer, or better, or calmer or anything more positive when she isn’t involved, or you are not anxious about hearing from her, then there’s your answer.

x

You owe them nothing, let alone a relationship here. Stop helping her financially too, she can manage without and she does not deserve your largesse. She likely had you marked as her carer in her old age. Do not become this to her either.

What you’ve written about here is an abusive mother who has affected all her now adult children in all sorts of ways, all to their detriment. You moved continents to get away.

Many people have tough lives or starts but choose not to behave like your mother has done towards her now adult children. She had a choice when it came to you all and she chose likely the same as what was done to her by her parents.

She was once young and abusive and now she is old and abusive. Her advancing years are no excuse or justification for how she has behaved here. Therefore do not go down that rabbit hole.

Deal with your feelings of fear obligation and guilt through therapy. Her support for you was and remains conditional throughout. She only approved of her choices for you, not choices you made for you.

Toxic parents often cite the look at all I’ve done for you trope. Do read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward as a starting point.

You do not need her approval, not that she would ever give you this anyway. Her support was and remains conditional. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she’s not a good grandmother now to her grandchildren.

You only need to give yourself permission to say enough is enough and say no more to being abused. This is who she is and she’s not going to change.

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Thank you for this considered response @GreenCandleWax . You are right - it isn't yet an issue of psychological survival. My healthy relationship, child, nuclear family dynamic, work and lovely friendships give me a lot of strength and comfort. An extended break, however, might be a useful strategy - esp as she has initiated the 'cold treatment' so I can lean into it by just not playing the part of appeasement through groveling. I don't know about explaining my choices though - as that would just not land in any way that signals a glimmer of understanding for where I am coming from. It would be perceived as betrayal, and arrogance, and 'getting too big for my boots'.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond in such a thoughtful manner. I guess, Ironically, I moved continents to get away from my abusive relationship not my family, but it is proving to be positive for all sorts of reasons. It has since been pointed out to me that the dysfunction resonating through my parental relationship also resonated through my relationship with my ex - the second guessing of my decisions/feelings, the emotional withdrawal, walking on eggshells etc. And, that my vulnerability to my ex, and my lack of judgment with him, was a function of lack of confidence in myself fostered by this kind of parenting. I know she meant well though, and had a hard life, and did her best for us. And, unlike with my ex, there was/is genuine love and care there, so much harder to be hard-nosed about it.

I don't help her financially, just to be fair to her, she has saved and has always prided herself on her independence. I helped my brother financially, and am generous with her when she visits and in terms of paying for her etc but that' cultural rather than her needing it.

I do grieve for the relationship I should have had, but in my cultural context, I actually see a lot of such enmeshed families, so much so that is almost par for course. She isn't going to change, for sure, but some sort of renegotiation rather than a full rupture might be easier for me emotionally, I think. And, yes, I might need to address my FOG in therapy. Thank you, again, for the kind and insightful response.

Why did you write that she meant well? She’s never meant well sadly and as I’ve stated before many people have had tough childhoods and choose not to act as she has done towards their now adult children.

Her best too was not good enough. It’s no justification or excuse for her actions towards your brother and you.

She has never apologised nor has accepted any responsibility for her actions. She’s taught you also a lot is damaging lessons about relationships and you perhaps subconsciously chose someone not too dissimilar to her.

You will never be able to have a renegotiation of your relationship with her. She won’t allow it. As far as she is concerned it’s her way or no way and your point of view does not count.

You will never be able to reason either with someone as dysfunctional as your mother . She’s also done you a huge favour by not talking to you for the last three mothers: saves you doing that task.

Months not mothers.

I guess I meant that she did what she thought was best for us in her cultural context, given the pressures she faced, including gender, and with little extended family support. She scrimped and saved, never said no to buying books, on my education etc. I know it was her job as a parent, and I do plenty for my child and I actively do not frame it as a 'sacrifice'. It was unthinking repeat of what she knew/saw/had intuited about parenting and it was damaging, yes, but it was not malicious or self-serving, I guess. That's what I meant, anyway.

There is no question about her apologizing because she wouldn't even countenance that she's done anything wrong! On the contrary, she is currently miffed with me because I am the rude/disrespectful one that has not sufficiently appreciated everything she has done for me. And, she has indeed taught me some damaging things about relationships. My therapist pointed out the disconcerting link between her dysfunction and my ex's.

I am beginning to see the silver lining to her cold silence with me. But, I am learning how to sit with that discomfort.

You owe your mother nothing, let alone a relationship here. You already have physical distance, now work on putting in more mental distance between you and she. Her support was and remains conditional on you complying to her demands.

I haven't seen my dm since 2012. And df since 1998...
I just don't need that sort of negativity in my life !

Gosh! How did you deal with the guilt, and sense of obligation? I assume it got easier with time. And, was there a particular trigger or catalyst or a series of pent up things over time?