Starting a fourth thread when I hoped three would be enough

[PithyBeaker]

really hoped I wouldn’t need this but looks like I do

Keeping this channel open with him is like trying to reason with a drunk. You will never make any progress and destroy more of your sanity just trying.

That summed it up perfectly 👏
@PithyBeaker

well done. Now stick to it

Pithy, I’ve read all your posts.

I haven’t read all of everyone else’s and am sure I am repeating things others have said, but in case it helps you to have further reinforcement and back-up:

It is abundantly clear to me that this man is manipulative and in fact emotionally abusive. He is gaslighting you, playing on your insecurities, rewriting history, triangulating, trying to hook you back in with false promises, love bombing. It’s textbook, truly. And has anyone yet mentioned the wonderful Mumsnet term of “cocklodger”?

You have such good insight but because you are in the thick of it, and probably because of vulnerabilities that aren’t your fault in any way but are nonetheless relevant, he has still been getting to you. You should be so proud that despite all that you’ve stayed strong.

This is serious. It meets criteria for domestic abuse. If he continues bombarding you in this way - and he likely will - you can ask him to stop communicating with you as this is harassment. Some people get non-molestation orders for this type of thing and regardless of whether or not you want to (if you do, local or national advice and support would be available) that’s how serious and unacceptable his behaviour is.

You did an incredible and brave thing in asking him to leave. It’s ok that it’s hard to cut ties: he is a headworker, and you are probably in a trauma bond.

I am so sorry your previous experience of therapy was counterproductive, and this isn’t unheard of. Don’t write off other therapy either though, now or down the line; a knowledgeable and better informed practitioner could really get to grips with the situation and with you.

I’m so sorry for what’s been happening, and so proud of you. What a wonderful mother you are, too.

Edit: he thrives on communication from you – any communication. The content of what you say doesn’t matter and you cannot reason with him. He wants the drama. Nothing you say will actually change his perspective. You’ll be in a circular argument from hell. Keep him blocked: cut the oxygen supply to him, and keep your own.

@PithyBeaker hope you are doing okay….

What did you decide to do @PithyBeaker? I hope you are ok.

I'd go with this option, and set up a new email address for the sole purpose of getting rid of his stuff. Something like [email protected], and specify that you will only be communicating from this email address regarding him collecting his stuff, and he remains blocked on all other channels. This email account will self-destruct in 28 days, along with any uncollected belongings.

Don't let him take up any more time and head space than he already has, he doesn't deserve it, and you deserve peace.

If he really needed his remaining possessions he'd have collected them by now. As they're already probably boxed up, put them outside your house and tell him he'd better collect them before they get stolen/helpfully taken by the bin men/damaged by being outside. Or threaten to put a sign up to say they are free - help yourself!

I think it's dangerous to advise the op to dump his stuff outside. Manipulative people are often very spiteful and if the op doesn't cover herself legally she could find herself being accused of taking his things for profit or refusing to give them back. We all know that it'd be utter nonsense , however it would be the perfect way to make the op squirm and keep her involved with him for a while longer.

Instructing a solicitor is the best thing to do here. Keeps her hands clean and gets the job done.

I agree. Anything which looks or feels to him like revenge/attack/punishment, will invite retaliation from him and then they will be locked forever in this painful and damaging situation.

Hi all, thank you for this, I agree and have been quiet bc I didn’t find the increasingly rabid urging to dump his stuff in the river helpful. The irl person whose advice I trust the most and who I am most confident has my safety and best interests at heart (my sister) has been helpful in reminding me not to let the situation get unnecessarily drama-filled. I appreciate that everyone on here has seen some bad situations and while my situation isn’t ideal, it’s not really that bad. He has promised to sort a van to collect his stuff in the next week and that’s good enough for me. He wants his stuff, just some of it is too heavy for one person to lift so he needs help and is sorting that. Everything else is cool. Had a busy week at work, got in the river a few times to cool the F off and calm the brain. Now the sun is shining and I’m making biscuits for bake sale at DC school tomorrow. All fine. Thanks again all for your stalwart support ❤️

That’s fantastic news, Pithy. Well done in keeping calm and not escalating things. It wouldn’t have helped under the circumstances - it would just give him ammo to “prove” that you’re “not stable”. You’ve handled it all so well.

It’s all progress @PithyBeaker 👏👏👏

Good for you Pithy. Some are keyboard warriors and suggest actions they would do; some have never been in your position and suggest actions which are naive and unworkable and some look on social media as entertainment only, forgetting this is your actual life. You have generally been rational and making decisions that work for you. I applaud you

I think thats unfair. OP (understandably) is very up and down. Very distressed at times, seems rather desperate and explaining how he is bombarding her with really nasty abusive messages. People are encouraging her to cut contact and thats wise. She then thinks about it and thinks he isn't that bad, things are quite good now, and shes happy at the pace. Thats fine, but to say people are baying for blood is really not fair. I think a lot of people, me included, are feeling a lot of empathy for her and hearing it play out is actually quite upsetting. We want her to cut contact for good so she can stop torturing herself. Id say its mixed messages she is giving but that sounds accusatory and its not - I think it is completely normal for her to feel one way about him, then another, then full circle. Its a lot.

I dont believe people telling her not to make things dramatic is good advice personally. There is nothing dramatic about being firm and having boundaries - quite the opposite really IMO.

Anyway, I think most people on here, including myself, want nothing best for the OP and anyone in her position. I think, as women, we are always encouraged to be nice, undramatic, kind, patient, not outspoken - all at the expense of ourselves and our own wellbeing. And I dont think thats a good thing.

I hear you but I think when it's you, when it's your life it's just WAY more complicated. It's easy being on the outside looking in. We see it much more clearly because it's not our emotions, our shared history, our good times. We just see the bit that broke the relationship. Having had ups and downs in my own relationship I understand now how difficult and complicated it all is. The vast majority of abused women go back to their abuser. There is a reason for that. I think OP has to find her own way through. It's her journey. And we offer support. The main thing was he has left. The rest she will work through at her own pace.
I have often wondered if PB loves him and questions her decision. I think, even after everything he has done, she probably does. And that's ok. She's just working through it her own way in her own time.

I have often wondered if PB loves him and questions her decision.
That is only to be expected. It's very difficult to turn off feelings of love, and it's easy for us to suggest that she cuts him right off. We're not living her life or experiencing her emotions.
Real life is much more nuanced.

I think, even after everything he has done, she probably does.
Yes. Why should she not?
He isn't (as she has said many times) an ogre - he has faults and failings and, no doubt, good qualities, too.

And that's ok. She's just working through it her own way in her own time.
...... which is all any of us can do.
I think she's doing really well, in a difficult situation.

I think it's good you set a boundary about getting his stuff out of your house and he's taking the steps to make it happen. You can have strong boundaries and still keep the drama out. Messing with your head by constant messages is a form of drama and I hope that's stopped.

Biscuits for the bake sale sounds lovely. I think your relationship with your son will deepen now that he's got a peaceful home and that will pay off big time in years to come.

Pithy, have you ever read Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood? It's not super new, but you might find something in it that resonates with you.

Well, I was one who said I’d give a firm deadline for his stuff to be out or dispose of it. That is likely what I would do, sensible or level headed or not. Once my patience has run out with someone, I can be pretty “rip off the plaster” about things. That said, I don’t know what his stuff that’s left includes, so maybe I wouldn’t just do that and wouldn’t want to take any further blame if anything got damaged.

Either way, Pithy has done what she thinks is best and is happy with the pace and the progress, and I can see the wisdom in being patient, even if I can’t claim to be patient myself 😁 she’s shown the whole time that she’s capable of deciding what she thinks is best no matter what people on here say, so good on her!

@inickedthisname I think you sound pretty great to me!

I agree. I think the thing is when asked for advice many of us draw on personal experiences and just hope the benefit of whatever that was can help someone else.
I can remember a chaotic situation with someone who ended up being truly awful, barely noticed my existence, and when I said I’d had enough along came the gifts, the promises, the tears, he couldn’t live without me.
And on and on it went.
Eventually I gave in and within weeks he was worse and getting away a second time was harder. Now he had an axe to grind.
I had lots of good advice the first time around but all the time he was in my ear.
The second time around I was lucky I still had a few patient friends.
I think this man is being probably being quiet now as next week he will resume. Access=success to him.
The drama actually comes from him and the fact that he’s still around somewhere.
He was given specific days and that’s changed. Thats fine for OP, it’s her decision.
He may not be an ogre but he’s constantly messaged a woman he is supposed to love, who has PSTD, a barrage of messages which are borderline abusive.
I only learned from my own experience in the end. And I think OP is doing better than I managed as he’s not back living in her home, at heart she knows it’s not a good fit, and I think it will work out for her in the long run.
We all bring our own baggage when we bring advice and I’m great at handing it out. Taking it myself? Not so much….

@ThisJadeBear Oh I totally hear you. I just don't like the insinuation that strength and firm boundaries equals being unnecessarily dramatic or difficult. The classic hysterical woman. It isn't. I wish I realised that years ago - would have saved me and my kids a lot of heartache. I wish more women believed this and acted upon it.

As the fabulous Helen Mirren famously said "If I could give my younger self one piece of advice, it would be to use the words “f* off” much more frequently." Queen.

I was thinking about thus recently as 60 is my next big birthday and I agree. Being brought up to be nice, kind etc.
And finding a boyfriend/husband was this romantic idea.
I met someone at 17, he was 21 and he literally wanted to remove every part of me which made me, me.
Kept repeating the pattern.
The advent of text messaging was not a godsend for me it just enabled harassment.

Absolutely - it’s definitely possible for some people to under-react because they’ve not had the experience of something like this turning very sour/toxic/fully abusive, so they think being kind or patient is the best advice and it may or may not be depending on the individuals (who none of us know irl). Some people have had to learn about abuse and the sort of scripts that go along with it, and others haven’t. We’re all just giving our advice/suggestions, nobody is giving orders.

You’re all so wonderful. What a decadently generous collective of intelligent women. Love you all so much. Just checking in to say good here. I’ve not had any pestering messages for days and he is away, at his sister’s - for support, I assume (which is great and not my business or problem). DC and I are sailing tomorrow and beach on Monday ☀️ Hope you’re all enjoying the fab weather too x

That sounds like a fantastic weekend! Enjoy.