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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Help my sis wants to emmigrate but ex says no???

28 replies

Britabroad · 18/01/2005 19:37

My sis wants to leave uk for life in nz but knows she will have to face court battle and possible violence from ex who wont like her plans. PLEASE any advice???

OP posts:
Caligula · 18/01/2005 19:40

Do it without telling him. Don't leave a forwarding address.

Frizbe · 18/01/2005 19:44

would be interesting to see what the new court system announced today has to say about this?

paolosgirl · 18/01/2005 20:00

Have they got kids together?

Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 20:13

Yes 2 boys 7 and 10.
What is the new court system Frisbe? I live in NZ.
She would love to do that Caligula but wouldn't UK courts order her return and NZ wouldn't let her stay without permission otherwise she would be on next plane!!!

OP posts:
paolosgirl · 18/01/2005 20:18

Does he have regular contact with the boys? Is he a 'good dad' to them, actively involved (as far as possible) in their lives?

Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 20:35

He has hem alternate weekends. He has not been a good dad IMO not bothered re school, health etc. Life is hard childminders are more help!

OP posts:
jasper · 18/01/2005 21:25

I don't know the details but am astonished that some of you are suggesting a woman remove her children from their father, permanantly behind his back.(I am assuming none of you know the details either)

SoupDragon · 18/01/2005 21:31

Have to say I'm a little uncomfortable with this too. Unless the circumstances are such that the children should not see their father.

Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 21:33

The boys could still have contact via webcam etc but the boys and her she considers their quality of life will be better in NZ. He is a violent man but she still wishes the boys to contact their father.

OP posts:
Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 21:34

Soup dragon you feel that she should carrying on struggling?

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 18/01/2005 21:41

Given that I know neither side of the story I can only comment from imaginging DH gaining custody of our children and moving them to the other side of the world. At no point did I say she should continue to struggle because at no point did you offer any information about the situation.

Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 21:48

Sorry didn't mean to offend.I just want to help her and I am sorry if I took out my frustration on you
I too can't imagine the horror if it happenend to me but being in a different relationship where games are played, as is violence and day to day conflict I am not sure how I would feel?

OP posts:
Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 21:52

She is finding it hard with no support and finnancially the child minders are a drain. She works all hours and is tired and stressed at weekends. Here work would be easier and I could help with the children?

OP posts:
jasper · 18/01/2005 22:02

is/was she married to their father?
By violence do you mean he has hit her? hit the chidren?

morningpaper · 18/01/2005 22:05

You are saying he's violent but in that case why do you think that courts would want him to have access to the children? confoosed

It sounds a bit like you are desperate to help but the only way you feel you REALLY can is if she lives near you?

Personally I think its important to ENCOURAGE absent fathers to have MORE time with their children. This is the kind of sitation where it will be harder and harder for him to have time with them and in the end their relationship could break down.

Caligula · 18/01/2005 22:07

Sorry, I think violent men are not good fathers by definition. I don't think they should be encouraged to have a relationship with their children - they teach boys to be violent and girls to be hit. I don't see how that is in the interests of either their children or society as a whole.

Maybe that's a simple and pat approach, but I believe it to be true.

And I don't think a violent man should be allowed to stop a mother seeking a better life for herself and her children.

lowcalCOD · 18/01/2005 22:08

always two sides IME

Caligula · 18/01/2005 22:10

Also Morningpaper, courts are well known for awarding sole contact to violent fathers. They put the children's right to maintain a relationship with their father above the issue of whether it's in that child's interest to have a relationship with the father. It's a myth that violent fathers aren't allowed access. They are, all the time. And many of them use that access as an opportunity to continue the violence to their exes.

Sorry to hijack, Britabroad, no idea whether any of that has anything at all to do with your sister.

Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 22:18

For me all about quality of life for boys? Will life for them be better here or there. Contact with their father will happen at different levels but will still happen in both cases.Yes Jasper he hit her and was aggressive to children but dont think he physically abused them.
Morningpaper yes I want to help and if I could help him become a positive nuturing father I would do that first. Because then the whole situation would not have arisen.

OP posts:
Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 22:27

Morningpaper do you think your statement

Personally I think its important to ENCOURAGE absent fathers to have MORE time with their children

Always is the case. even if they witness or experience horrid things?

OP posts:
Caligula · 18/01/2005 22:28

Chances are, if he were a positive nurturing father she wouldn't want to move to the other side of the world. Postive nurturing fathers aren't something to be carelessly thrown away!

Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 22:33

I agree. As I do care that is what I'd wish for my nephews whereever I lived.

OP posts:
aloha · 18/01/2005 22:33

Does your sister's ex have parental responsibility? If not, she can take the children where she likes. If he does, or they were married, then she will either have to get his permission or go through the courts to get the court's permission. The court will be very, very unlikely to prevent her going. It will be hassle but the chances of her ex preventing her from living are tiny to non-existent.
If she suspects her ex will be violent to her that is another issue and she may need to get an injunction against him - which will also go against him in court.
Normally I would think it pretty dreadful for a mother to take children away from their father, but if he is abusive and she is afraid of continuing violence then I do see her point.
What would the children think? How old are they?

Original poster
Britabroad · 18/01/2005 22:35

Thanks aloha. They are very keen.They are 7 and 10.

OP posts:
aloha · 18/01/2005 22:38

I see I typed 'living' when I meant to type 'leaving' - I think that was a Freudian slip! I think she should go for it. She'll be best to see a solicitor to help her out directing her to the right places and giving advice, but she could easily represent herself if there is a hearing. Most courts tend to identify the mother's best interest with the children's best interest, and so allow her to move. The fact that this man is violent and the kids are keen makes this case a bit of a foregone conclusion, I would guess.

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