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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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So my DP just did this…

322 replies

WildflowerWildfire · 13/02/2022 09:34

Laid in bed this morning with DP and I was still sleepy, whereas he was wide awake. We were spooning and he was stroking my back. I wasn’t fully asleep but I was very much dozing, when he decided to pull my knickers down and push his penis towards me (attempting anal). I pulled them up and asked what he was doing - he said he was trying to woo me Hmm

We have had anal sex before, a long time ago. But this is unacceptable isn’t it?

OP posts:
SunflowerTed · 14/02/2022 22:32

@spotcheck

He was trying it on, you said no. I'm not sure this constitutes assault, and it is a bit extreme to leave him for. Sounds like he viewed the spooning and stoking as foreplay. Did he have an erection while spooning. If so, and you were all spooned up, and enjoying being stroked, it's likely he did assume foreplay was happening.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a talk about your boundaries, but in this instance, I see how it could have been confusing for him.

Totally agree with this
SunflowerTed · 14/02/2022 22:41

[quote Migrainesbythedozen]@Palmfrond You clearly still have not read the OP's words. She was more than clear. He penetrated her and pushed it in. Are you unable to read? And nowhere did she ask or need it 'clarified', what are you even going on about? Clearly you are not discussing the same issue as the rest of us.

The OP was quite distraught in her posts, even mentioning she had been assaulted previously. Are you really suggesting the OP would be distraught and this upset, over a penis against her butt cheeks? Seriously, try to use some critical thinking.[/quote]
He didn’t penetrate her

Bordois · 14/02/2022 23:10

Going straight from stroking someones back to trying to force your penis into their anus isn't initiating sex.

Regardless of all the pedantry over if this constitutes rape or secual assault (imo it very much does) what is clear is its a complete betrayal of trust and violation of boundaries.

Only you know, OP, if you can trust him not to try anything like that again - or will this be a first step in him chipping away at your boundaries?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 14/02/2022 23:18

@SunflowerTed

He didn’t penetrate her

If she hadn't woken up then he would have, without warning or lubrication meaning it would have both been shocking and painful. He admits he tried to have anal sex with her while she was dozing, knowing it's not part of their normal sexual activity. That's clear. Even he acknowledges that. The fact he was unsuccessful doesn't change his intent:

"He admits that he did try to have anal sex with me and that there was no excuse."

TatianaBis · 15/02/2022 08:39

@SunflowerTed He didn’t penetrate her

Then his hands went lower, pulled down my knickers and pushed his penis as far as he could before I stopped him and pulled them back up.

Palmfrond · 15/02/2022 10:28

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Palmfrond · 15/02/2022 10:29

[quote TatianaBis]@SunflowerTed He didn’t penetrate her

Then his hands went lower, pulled down my knickers and pushed his penis as far as he could before I stopped him and pulled them back up.[/quote]
OP initially wrote that he “pushed his penis towards her”. Not sure what that means, but it certainly doesn’t sound like penetration.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/02/2022 10:47

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@SunflowerTed

He didn’t penetrate her

If she hadn't woken up then he would have, without warning or lubrication meaning it would have both been shocking and painful. He admits he tried to have anal sex with her while she was dozing, knowing it's not part of their normal sexual activity. That's clear. Even he acknowledges that. The fact he was unsuccessful doesn't change his intent:

"He admits that he did try to have anal sex with me and that there was no excuse."[/quote]
This to @Palmfrond also. He tried to. He wanted to. He was stopped but he tried.

Something they don't do regularly, that she wouldn't be expecting, with no warning with no lube - meaning it would hurt.

I'm shocked anyone thinks that's OK.

Palmfrond · 15/02/2022 11:01

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TatianaBis · 15/02/2022 11:12

What is not ok is laying the law down based on a superficial reading of the OP’s posts.

Between the former and the latter posts we don’t actually now how far he went, we do know it was unacceptable to the OP.

I can’t argue for low your expectations of men, but I don’t interpret attempted non-consensual anal penetration as a ‘poke during a sleepy cuddle’ and it smacks of wilful minimisation. I don’t know any man who would think that was ok.

SunflowerTed · 15/02/2022 12:11

@TatianaBis

What is not ok is laying the law down based on a superficial reading of the OP’s posts.

Between the former and the latter posts we don’t actually now how far he went, we do know it was unacceptable to the OP.

I can’t argue for low your expectations of men, but I don’t interpret attempted non-consensual anal penetration as a ‘poke during a sleepy cuddle’ and it smacks of wilful minimisation. I don’t know any man who would think that was ok.

I agree. I dont think one single person has said its OK!!!!!!!!!
Palmfrond · 15/02/2022 12:29

@TatianaBis
Attempted rape is a crime.
Wilful minimisation is not okay.
Wilful maximization is also not okay, such as presenting “sleepy” as “asleep”, or interpreting “pushing his penis toward” as “penetrating anally”.
Both are damaging.

TatianaBis · 15/02/2022 12:58

Wilful minimisation is what you are continuing to do, despite admitting it is not ok.

We don't actually know how far he got as it is not clear from the OP.

That is why the account has had different interpretations.

But an attempt to penetrate someone anally without their consent falls under the definition of sexual assault. That is simply a fact.

How people chose to interpret it is up to them. What is not ok is trying to impose your own personal interpretation on the events and claim others are invalid. Particularly when to do so you cherry pick one aspect of the OP's narrative and ignore another.

krj260888 · 15/02/2022 13:22

I hope you are okThanks

SunflowerTed · 15/02/2022 14:51

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SunflowerTed · 15/02/2022 14:52

@TatianaBis

Wilful minimisation is what you are continuing to do, despite admitting it is not ok.

We don't actually know how far he got as it is not clear from the OP.

That is why the account has had different interpretations.

But an attempt to penetrate someone anally without their consent falls under the definition of sexual assault. That is simply a fact.

How people chose to interpret it is up to them. What is not ok is trying to impose your own personal interpretation on the events and claim others are invalid. Particularly when to do so you cherry pick one aspect of the OP's narrative and ignore another.

I think you have your own agenda. You need to read the OP's post more thoroughly
Valeriekat · 16/02/2022 07:47

@spotcheck

He was trying it on, you said no. I'm not sure this constitutes assault, and it is a bit extreme to leave him for. Sounds like he viewed the spooning and stoking as foreplay. Did he have an erection while spooning. If so, and you were all spooned up, and enjoying being stroked, it's likely he did assume foreplay was happening.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a talk about your boundaries, but in this instance, I see how it could have been confusing for him.

ffs
Valeriekat · 16/02/2022 07:51

They always cry don't they?

Shiteshow100 · 16/02/2022 19:58

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Carolinecosseythesecond · 24/02/2022 07:12

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Lou1913 · 24/02/2022 10:22

My husband put our then 22yr marriage on the rocks a few years ago and due to deceit there are trust issues. We separated twice but on his last return spoke about a new way forward. It was short lived.

In October he started a new job. Last Wednesday he travelled to Poland. He rang on arrival and said the weather warning may delay his return - he’d keep us posted. We had a text Thursday but it didn’t mention the return flight Friday. At 216am Friday he rang me but hung up. I text by return. At 6am I had a gobbledegook response. Our youngest text him asking about his flight. Nothing.

At 3pm Friday he rang (from his work phone) to say he’d landed but there’d been storm delays. I told him I was pi**ed off at his total silence and he said his personal phone was dead as he’d not plugged it in to charge properly early hours Friday.
He walked in a bit later and went upstairs, showered, unpacked and led down. He spoke a few words to reiterate it was a charging issue and he’s home now. Saturday he was sheepish. Sunday I initiated clearing the air. After being told I’m not moving on and it digressing to historical stuff he told me to sit down and he’d tell me what happened in Poland.

On Thursday evening after food and drinks they went to a lap dancing bar - he told me he’s not done it before. He ‘got separated’ from his colleagues and went into a private room with two women. He said they made him pay for drinks and after lots of hassle with cards working he said he remembers day light and being on a street in Krakow. His boss rang and my husband made it back to the hotel foyer to his packed bags. He said he looked at the cc app and they had charged him £350 more than they asked for but that he’s lucky cos he’s in one piece.

My immediate thought was my worries were founded and also told him to canx the cards. Also said did you have sex? You’ll need to test. He said the cards are fine he’ll monitor it (yes!!!) and he can’t remember anything but he didn’t have sex.

Three days later it flashed up on our joint bank account £2500 withdrawal in Poland. Plus it transpires a further £3,500 was attempted but the bank security declined it due to the pattern of requests.

Although the scenario is different it’s the same behaviour traits being shown again. I am not a prude, the main arena of a lap dancing bar is totally different to choosing to go to a private room. It seems these establishments main industry is the card scamming and not the dancing but he put himself into that environment through macho drinking. He’s not even been employed by them that long. His recount to our children (we have no bank cards currently and it’s half term) has been one of a victim. I am struggling to have any sympathy to these cyclical man made dramas that are just spiralling…..

Lou1913 · 24/02/2022 11:04

pasted in error into the wrong field….apologies.

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