Men who are "good with women"

[Iloveyoutilltheend]

I just wondered if you had come across this. I was discussing one colleague with another (in a nice way) recently and she described him as above. Not in a "pulling" way but I guess she meant at ease with, finding it easy to speak to, generally coming across as not harassing and not doing some irritating stereotypical male habits like interrupting, not listening etc. It just got me thinking what this means to you. It is noticeable how the person in question seems to relatively easy speak to women but doesn't seem predatory or even especially interested in that way. My take was we women are so used to many many even decent men behaving differently in a more stylised way around us that naturalness is noticed.

Without blowing my own trumpet I think my female work colleaugues would describe me that way.
They say I'm charming (which I take as a compliment!).

They are VERY open with me (TMI on occasion) probably because they know I have no designs on them sexually and I am not pervvy. And because I am old enough to be their dad.

All the men I know are like that. I don't hang out with wankers.

The youngest is 28 and the eldest is 73. None of them behave in the 'stereotypical male' way you describe.

My DH is like this. He has several female friends because he listens to women and respects their opinions.

I think growing up with sisters is an important factor. They get to see the female "take" on things from an early age.

Most men I know are like this. I've never met someone who portrays the stereotypical male behaviour you describe. In fact, I wouldn't identify men in that way.

My 2 brothers though (4 sisters) although "at ease" with women, do discuss women in a sexist and frustrating way when women are not around. So not all men with sisters are respectful if you see what I mean.

I've got one male ex-colleague who's like that. You could see that while his male coworkers would gravitate towards talking to male mates about "man things" he'd be just as likely to be having a chat with the female workers about books and history and news and parenting - whilst still being very masculine (some of the other "women's men" I know are a bit camp - which is also great but a different phenomenon). I'm baffled by the people who have no male workmates with a preference for laddish banter - and a bit envious.

I know someone like that. While he is mildly and benignly flirtatious, he also has a way of talking to women as if he genuinely likes women and finds them interesting. Like what they're saying is fascinating. I asked his wife if "little old ladies" generally adored him and she said "Oh, my God. Yes. All of them."

He's a rather scary-looking man with very long hair and tattoos so it's absolutely his personality that charms them.

Do you mean a man who treats women like people?

When I met my DH, it was the first time I had met a man who treated men and women in a similar way, he wasn't "charming" to women, he was just normal with everyone. It was one of the first things I loved about him.

I grew up with 4 brothers, and it was a refreshing change.

"good with women" sounds rather like a patronising way to describe a man who is "friendzoned"

Perhaps it is just men who are more easily able to create a rapport with people (including women). DH is like this, he works in fashion/design he wouldn't have got very far if he wasn't able to get along really well with women (and gay men).

I suppose yes I mean someone who is normal and doesn't adapt their behaviour around either men or women. I suppose you could also get a weak charactered man who was normal with women but pretend macho/laddish around other men in order to fit in. What is striking actually is how this person's conduct stands out for its very normality, which I guess could be a sad comment on how the genders are around each other. Also striking how often a straight man who is normal and friendly to women regardless of age/attractiveness will be mistaken for gay even when he is not camp.

RedMapleLeaf Tue 02-Feb-16 08:20:25

Do you mean a man who treats women like people?

Women aren't people?

SelfLoathing Tue 02-Feb-16 09:10:25

"good with women" sounds rather like a patronising way to describe a man who is "friendzoned

I'm not quite sure what the friendzone is, but what's wrong with having friends of either sex?

Women aren't people?

Yeah, that was kind of my point

"Friend-zoning" is a deeply dubious concept in which entitled men moan about the fact that women they find attractive don't want to sleep with them even though they're really nice and argue that the women in question are refusing to sleep with them precisely because they're nice (and not because they're whiny, needy and basically unattractive).

It doesn't apply in this case. The men we're talking about are normally happily married a) because they have appealing personalities and are a bit of a catch b) because the fact that they're not on the pull is one of the things that makes them so relaxing to spend time with.

Thanks for the explanation LadyI. I'm happily single (AS my name if you like).

Why the Red?

Isn't this called acting normal ?

Isn't this called acting normal ?

It should be, but I think it's a bit like "common sense" - it's not very common!

I'm very envious of anyone who's had to contend with this so little. I think a lot may be dependent on your industry. I work in quite a corporate environment and have for many years and unfortunately there are plenty of dinosaurs around

I would have to say in my experience that younger men are more likely to treat both men and women equally. It tends to be men of my own age or above (40s) who largely make up this unpleasant section of the male workforce.

But also, attitudes are set from the top. If the CEO is a back-slapping, woman-interrupting idiot, then you're going to end up with a culture that encourages this. If she or he is a decent person, then the throwbacks will usually find their way out of the door, one way or the other.

Interrupting is rude. Not a male or female trait. Most normal, decent people treat other people as just that; people. If that's solely your experience with men and not women then that's more an indication of who you mix with. Not the male sex.

It's not just about actively bad behaviour. Some men are more bloke-minded and feel more comfortable having blokey footbally bantery conversations in a particular idiom which most women don't fancy unless they're doing the full "one of the lads" thing (some women enjoy this and find it comes naturally to them, most don't). It's not an admirable trait but it's not exactly a sin - similarly some women feel much more comfortable talking in all female groups in a particular style. However it can have bad knock on effects for women's progress and happiness in male dominated workplaces (and men's happiness in female dominated workplaces).

I know quite a few heterosexual non-camp men with whom I'll have comfortable conversations about life the universe and everything without any serious flirtatious frisson, and without feeling singled out as a strange freak with no Y chromosome but those men are definitely the minority, and they stand out.

Tigger there are many, many studies which show that men interrupt women far more frequently than they interrupt each other, or than women interrupt. See this article for example:
nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/03/19/google-chief-blasted-for-repeatedly-interrupting-female-government-official/
paying particular attention to the part about Adrienne Hancock's recent study.

Of course there are women who interrupt and they are rude bastards as well, however statistically men are much more likely to do so.

Yes, one of my managers. I love him to bits because he treats me not like 'the girl' but like a person. Just feel so at ease around him, it makes such a difference as a woman working exclusively among men.

He's got the balance exactly right - doesn't treat me any differently than the men but will still throw in the occasional flirty joke when I need a little pick-me-up (but without sexualising me - and no, I really can't explain it, it just works for him).

For the stats, yes, he has sisters and AFAIK was raised by a single mum for some of his childhood.

Interestingly, what I know about his personal life sometimes makes me think he must be a bit of an arse as a husband. Frankly I don't really care that much, seeing as I work with and am not married to him ...

good with women
good with children
good with babies
good with ethnic /racial groups
good with men

Not really heard the last one= it implies a superior being good with an inferior.

I don't think I've ever heard of "good with ethnic group X" (except in the context of politicians which is not the subject in question). I've definitely heard "she's a man's woman"/"she's one of the lads".

I've heard 'good with [ethnic group]' but that was in a business setting where different cultural assumptions and approaches to work were a problem so made total sense within it's context.

I'm great with men. Arguably that would be because I can't flirt my way out of a wet paper bag and suck at noticing when they flirt with me, so my relationships with them tend to be very relaxed.