Simple explanation of consent

[fourquenelles]

www.upworthy.com/dont-know-what-consent-is-let-this-animation-of-a-cup-of-tea-clear-it-up-for-you?c=ufb1

I came across this today and I thought it was a very clear, simple explanation of consent. I wanted to share and was interested in whether it is something that could be very useful when talking to young people about sex and consent.

Yes, it's been brought up before. I think it's brilliant and succinctly put.

You're right, it needs to be used in schools so there's no ambiguity.

When the story was in the papers a few months ago about the footballer player, the guy I'm dating and I had a discussion about consent, and how abstract is actually is.

He said to me, surely consent is just consent until it's objected to? For example, when we have sex, you never say, "Yes, have sex with me". I have no clear verbal agreement you want to have sex with me, I go off assuming I am reading your body language correctly. But if you said no, I would stop immediately because consent has been given.

It really made me think! How do you convey your consent?

(I am in no way condoning anybody who has attempted sex with anybody without consent - I am simply saying the statement got me thinking.)

The version of the tea analogy I saw the other week, in the Feminism topic I'm sure it was, had more detail - it covered pretty much every possible scenario around sex tea.

One would generally convey consent with alert participation, surely? If you're slumped over the table you can't say no, but you still clearly aren't consenting!

Ah, here you go

Anyone who, having read this, still doesn't get where the line is, is really trying very hard not to see it.

....and if they get home after a couple of beers and seem to enthusiastically drink the tea you made on the assumption they were as thirsty as you, but then regretted it in the morning?

I know I've drunk tea and had sex when I didn't particularly fancy it, just to be polite. I'd be a fool to imagine my partners had never done the same, too.

This analogy sucks. It's crass and lame and serves no purpose whatsoever, expect to excessively simplify a complex and important issue.

Babycham are you talking about "morning after" regret that consent was given or implied? Can someone refuse to give consent retrospectively? You are right it is a complex and important issue. I thought this analogy was a good starting point though.

I think it really is that simple. It's your prerogative to have sex, or tea, just to be polite if that's what you want to do. It's also your prerogative to wake up in the morning and think "Damn, what was I thinking?" Just so long as it was your choice.

You have put it much more succinctly than I could Annie.

Then you tell them that they really don't have to drink it if they don't want it, and apologise rather than huffing about their ingratitude. If it's not really tea you also stop what you're doing, because frankly, wouldn't their expression put you off anyway?

babycham...have you a better alternative analogy then ?

The whole point the author was getting at is that it doesn't have to be that difficult. However complicated the scenario seems to be, if you just boil it down (see what I did there?) to "suppose it were a cup of tea" you can't go far wrong. You might miss out on sex occasionally, but most people can actually survive that. You'd miss out on a hell of a lot more, including sex, in the (unfortunately unlikely) event of being jailed for sexual assault.

I had a similar response to this as babycham, possibly because my mum spent most of my childhood telling me that whatever you were offered to eat or drink as a guest, you had to chow that shit down and say it was delicious, even if it was the worst thing you ever ate/drank.

I think mostly it's a great analogy but it doesn't fully address societal/ "etiquette" norms.

I do think it works completely as a "have I gained consent" lesson/checklist for when you're the one putting on the moves.

you really can't see a parallel with having to pretend to like a cup of tea you don't want and having to endure sex you don't want to avoid pissing someone off ?

tokenginger I think in a healthy relationship, both partners are attuned to the other's response. I mean you don't just rip your undies off and jump on, do you - sex starts with touches, kisses, etc, and it's pretty apparent immediately if the other person isn't interested.

The sad thing is that some people seem to not care about those signals and will just carry on regardless of the other person's unspoken "no". :(

Yes, and I think that's what it was designed for.

I do think etiquette has far too much to answer for. It ought to be perfectly possible to say no thank you to dry cake, a party invitation, unwanted sex or anything else without causing offence. It completely denies your right to have your own feelings/opinions otherwise. Do you think your mum did right by you in teaching you that, pocketsaviour?

It's not about pissing someone off, though, AF. It's about the little voice in your head that says "you're not being a good guest!"

However I accept that for those without psychotic mothers this metaphor will work fully

I disagree, Babycham. I think that consent is a very simple issue.

If you have any doubt whatsoever, don't make the tea.

Yes, someone may have sex or drink tea when they don't particularly want to. That's their choice. But if you had any doubt about whether your sexual partner was enjoying themself, you'd draw back and check.

Sorry, the above was in response to pocketsaviour's post of 20:12:46.

The trouble with the cup of tea analogy (although I can't think of a better one) is that it involves an action independent of the other person.

What if the person seemed to say yes or indicate yes, but waited till it was virtually cold then swallowed it down quick? What if the next day they said they didn't want to drink it? Should the tea-maker have realised that they weren't that keen on it?

What if the tea drinker took their cup of tea and swallowed it down while it was really hot? What if they then said the next day that they didn't want it and were drinking fast to get rid of it? Should the tea maker have realised that?

When is it the responsibility of the tea drinker to say no in a way that is clear to the tea maker?

X-post, no absolutely not Annie and I've had huge problems my whole life asking to have my needs and wants met, and turning down things I don't want.

As a result I've eaten far too much shitty tea-cake, and had way too much unsatisfactory sex :(

Things are better now though :)

"not being a good guest" easily translates to "you are not being a god partner" (if you don't do X, Y or Z)

your psychotic mother's expectations of what it means to "not make a fuss" easily compares with society's expectations that women should shut up and put up

I'm glad they're better

No, lougle, that's precisely why the analogy does work IMO. Because it's not about second-guessing or deciding what the tea drinker might feel or ought to do/say. The host may or may not offer tea, may or may not decide to make tea, but their responsibility begins and ends with not making them drink the tea.

In compliance with social etiquette I've drunk various beverages and shaken numerous hands when I haven't felt like doing either, but I've never had sex 'just to be polite'.

As far as I'm aware, that peculiar particular courtesy doesn't form part of Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior and it seems to me you are best advised to reset your boundaries, Babycham, otherwise you may find yourself with a horde considerably more than the Vicar on your doorstep at tea-time.