Are affairs the epitome of self-indulgence?

[fruitandnutlover]

Just throwing this one out to you for your valued opinions.

I have recently found out (although had my suspicions for a while) that my brother (he's single) has been having a long term affair with a married women who has an 8 year old dd.

Although I feel for my my brother (as he has slight social anxiety issues and has always said he wouldn't know where to find a partner as he doesn't like going to pubs and nightclubs etc. This woman has been a friend of his for many years and they are comfortable together!) I am so very disappointed with him as far as I am concerned she should have been off limits. She is married and even if she has major issues within that marriage it is her responsibility as a parent to either try to resolve her problems or leave the marriage. Embarking on an affair, IMO, will just exacerbate any issues she is having.

Even though I do not know this woman I am finding myself almost despising her for what she is doing to her husband but in particular her dd. As a parent myself, I can not imagine lying to my children and allowing them to falsely believe that their family life is sound and solid when in fact it is as fragile as egg shells!!

Yes, we all have issues and problems and married life is never going to be a long winding bump-free road but surely embarking on an affair whether its short or long-term is the ultimate in selfishness and self-indulgence?

I'm not sure about the 'ultimate' but yes, an affair is a self-indulgent act and it can be risky. Your brother is likely to get more hurt than her family, however. All the time he's wasting with someone unobtainable, he won't make much effort to meet anyone else.

As for lying.... presumably wherever and whenever it is she meets your brother, the cover story is holding up to scrutiny and there's no suspicion on the part of her DH. After all this time is she actively lying any more or has she established a routine and others just assume she'd doing something innocent? Are they not interested in her movements? Who knows? If she maintains the deception well enough, behaves discreetly, and your brother keeps schtum then she could easily end up celebrating her Golden Wedding, no-one any the wiser about her secret life, children all very proud of Dear Old Mum.

I'm glad you can't imaging yourself lying to your children. I've lied to mine on an occasional basis when I've felt the truth would be too upsetting..... it's a replacement goldfish? says who? And where would Santa be if we all didn't tell the odd lie? :)

It's great to be very sure of your stance on moral issues. However life is not always so black and white. In the case in point you have no idea what prompted the woman concerned to make the decision that she did - just because you can't conceive of such a circumstance doesn't mean that everyone else weighs things up in the same way.

I'll use a different moral stance to attempt to illustrate : Bribery is wrong. It just is. End of.
Yet what if you're working for a charity and you're trying to get aid to people and have to grease the palms of officials to do it? Do you stand by your stance and watch them starve?

To view affairs as entirely a self indulgent concept may be, I gently suggest, rather simplistic.

Your brother isn't having an affair. He isn't married/attached. She is.

Doesn't excuse his role in it though. Yes, self indulgent. Low moral standards from both of them (don't care about the affair-excusers, there's no good reasons for this, ever).

Nothing you can do about it though, unless you can boost his self esteem a bit so he believes he is worth more than the crumbs off someone else's table!

I rather think the woman's DH and DD are the ones with most to lose and facing the most hurt should the OP's brother's affair get found out.
OP's brother will lose a part time partner. The husband will lose his entire life - his trust in his wife; his closeness with his daughter reduced to every other weekend.
The daughter will lose a stable, loving, two parent family.
Your brother may not have taken the vows that the 'D'W has, and it's not his betrayal - but he is part of that betrayal, and knowingly so. A family life about to become a car crash.

Minus2seventy3
The husband will lose his entire life - his trust in his wife; his closeness with his daughter reduced to every other weekend.
The daughter will lose a stable, loving, two parent family"

That's rather an assumption. For all you know the husband could be a total bastard. Or having an affair of his own. Or gay. Or whatever...
"

^ Even when the husband is being wronged, we have a virtual LTB by proxy.

He could be all those things. He could also be some poor bastard doing his best, whose life is about to go to rat shit.

Exactly. Nobody knows.

So for the OP to slam a gavel marked "self indulgence" may be a wildly inaccurate thing to do.

And I didn't say LTB. One if the reasons people have affairs is to make their marriage bearable, and keep the union and the family together.

Keep the union and family together - I do get that, yes... But on balance of probabilities, I suspect it's really quite rare.

Who knows.

I try not to judge the ow for having the affair as I don't know her situation but regardless as to whether the OW's DH is lovely or not, whether their marriage is good or a shambles surely staring and continuing an affair for years on end is selfish and burying your head in the sand and therefore, self-indulgent?

I know several people who have had affairs and there hasn't been a good outcome from any of them there is always a massive fall-out and the children are usually the victims and the pain lasts for years. I have two friends in their 30's who are currently having counselling due to the hurt, anger and guilt they STILL experience.

I

I don't equate burying ones head in the sand and self indulgent.
Anyway with respect, it's not your business, it's your brother's, who may well be thinking "you don't miss a slice off a cut loaf"...

Yes it is self-indulgent. Yes it causes hurt if the shit hits the fan. It's risky behaviour for a lot of reasons and it can damage all the people involved, not just the innocent parties. Don't think there are many who would say that affairs are a great idea.

But there are plenty of other things people do that are risky, unwise, selfish, potentially damaging or hurtful, immoral and which they would rather others don't know about. You may even indulge in some of them yourself :) I think it pays not to be too judgemental ... as a nice man once put it 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.

I think self-indulgent is the perfect way to describe it. But unlike the sort of self-indulgence that demands you eat a whole box of chocolates, this sort hurts other people. And that isn't a 'judgement' - a judgement is saying that an affairee is a 'sinner' or deserving of punishment. Saying they are self-indulgent is a simple description of a behaviour.

The thing is, you only hear about the affairs that "got out". My string suspicion is that that's the tip of the iceberg.
Couples go through phases in their relationship and some of those changes will be due to outside influences, including affairs. But instead of an explosion they fizzle away. And no one is any the wiser.

I know of 9 affairs in the past 7 years. Only 2 of those where discovered (both wives) and the marriages are still together, though one, i don't think will last the distance. The other seven, simply, people haven't told. One has the hallmarks of a car crash approaching (i caught them kissing at a street party drinks!).

The other 6 have fizzled out and no spouses appeared to know about them. Marriages appear strong and look, at the very least, like the spouses enjoy each other's company!

There are so many different types of affairs, reasons for people to get into them/stay in them and so many different situations people's primary relationships are in.

It's far too simplistic to label all "affairs" the same whatever that label is.

Yes it is self indulgent.

There's a big difference between an open marriage and an affair where agreed boundaries have been broken. Either accept, or negotiate a change to the boundaries or get out.

yes it's to boost one's ego I think.
I agree with I think what cogito said about it's the woman having an affair not your brother. She has a lot to throw away - he will get hurt once it's over but we cannot control others situation only be there for them at the end I think especially when it comes to family. I understand a little because my sister is seeing a man who keeps telling her he is getting 'divorced' but I am not seeing any evidence of this because he 'couldn't' spend Christmas with her.