Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

alice oh absolutely. He tries the hard man tac then when that gets him nowhere he's all softly softly, which also doesn't work, then I can tell by the 'tone' of the message that he's aggravated but trying to keep it breezy. It's like I said last night, and other posters have today, KD can do the 'being nice' ..and, dare I say, 'normal', for a while, but he can't maintain it. And then it'll be my fault he's slipped back into old ways because I didn't make an effort/didn't praise him for his effort..whatever. I've lived the cycle enough to know that it wasn't genuine before and it's highly unlikely to be genuine now. Which is why I need to be vigilant with my emotions a I really can't and won't risk falling back into a relationship with him.

Yes, and now that I think about it - KD asked me a couple times "haven't I been good with the dcs today?" like he needed a pat on the back or something - or to make sure I noticed. I'm a bit uncomfortable with that, as it makes it seem contrived, like it's all part of his "role" to win me back. I don't really know if he's capable of being that manipulative or if he just needs to have his ego stroked often.

KD was always wanting exorbitant amounts of praise for the least little thing. Seriously, if he makes an effort with DC, I have to take note and praise him for the next 24 hours or he says 'what's the point'...What's the point?? The point is I'm not kissing his feet for doing something he should be doing anyway!!

Hi just marking my place.
Hope you don't mind me joining, have read a few of the previous posts and will try to catch up with them all.
Just coming to the realisation I may be being emotionally abused. Will post properly when I can, feel free to search up my previous posts though I must warn you it's long and complicated.

Feeling emotionally exhausted. In my eyes we are separated however he is in complete denial of this.

Trying to pluck up the courage to start the process of trying to move and just need a little support. Will be back hopefully to explain further

Bizkit welcome You say you are separated, but he is in denial. Are you still living together? (I ask only because some on here have gone through that and denial seems to be the FW "theme of the day" for that situation)

KD already sent an email asking about arrangements for next visit, automatically asking to come into the house again. I've said no and told him I'd get back with him in a few days. I need time to think about how best to proceed with this.

bizkit, hello and welcome. Sorry you find yourself here. Controlling people don't like having to give up the control, so that will be partly why he is in denial. It is emotionally exhausting, as you say. Take one step at a time.

breathe, agree, if it does not concern dc, do not discuss. Try not to engage as that is how they get inside your head.

I am extremely tired, ladies, so keeping it short this evening. and support to all, including lurkers. ginandsonic, it was lovely to hear your update, thank you for sharing. All the best to you.

Evening ladies..welcome to the thread bizkit

alice I guess 'tread carefully' is the best tactic wrt KD's email?

Saw KD in the supermarket and he asked to see DC for an hour to catch up. There's a cafe so I agreed we'd get some dinner with him.

He pretty much spent the whole time irritated and impatient with DC's because they kept wanting to interact and chatter with him whilst he was intent on talking to me. How he imagined we could sit in a cafe with 3 toddlers and not have to entertain them I don't know . I kept directing him back to them, telling him not to ignore them etc and eventually he got up and left. No warning, nothing, just like that. I then got a text saying it's impossible to discuss anything with me whilst DC are around and can we meet for coffee one day this week. I haven't responded yet.

It's pretty clear 'seeing our DC' is an excuse to talk to me rather than a desire to interact with them/do a bit of parenting. I won't be meeting him for coffee.

Curt Yes and no. I have been reminded that I have to make decisions based on what is best for myself and the dcs. Hopefully he will deal with them appropriately. If not, then that is his choice. I cannot be responsible for his happiness or his choices. He is an adult. Although we all know this is so much easier said than done. But I will make every effort to just keep business as usual.

alice I wasn't meaning to tread carefully around him, no, he's made some bad choices recently and they're his to deal with. I was meaning more to do with the conflict you've been going through recently, and to be kind to yourself; only respond with what works for the benefit of your DC's and your own well being.

KD is is still insisting we have things to discuss without the distraction of DC. I forsee having to give him an hour of child free time so he can get it off his chest and I can set him straight.

curt, you don't actually have to do anything. The only things you need to discuss are dc, which you can do via email or in mediation. He is just trying to wear you down.

If he has stuff to get off his chest, there are plenty of well qualified therapists he can talk to.

Curt Yes, KD here is of the same opinion. As I said, I foolishly allowed him into the house and in his opinion, that means I trust him and am willing to consider reconciliation. sigh. Even though I told him I wasn't. (and that I didn't trust him) And even hearing that, he is still lying. I am going to have to organise the next couple contact visits on strictly child oriented activities that keep him fully occupied on the dcs.

I know MIL would like to see the dcs, and she has offered to drive to mine to see them, but I am not happy for her to be driving (on my behalf) as realistically she shouldn't be driving at all IMO. Love her dearly, but she doesn't accept that with her memory failing, she shouldn't be on the road. So I may bite the bullet and schedule his contact visit at MIL's for one day, as it's her birthday coming up. I may fake a headache and take myself off in the front room by myself, where I can monitor what's going on without having to be right there for him to "chat" to IYSWIM. It'll keep his focus on the dcs and force him to interact with them and keep track of them, but I can be there in case of any problems. Yes, it breaks the "public place only" rule, but at least it's not MY house IYSWIM.

bluebell I'm becoming of the mind that this conversation needs to happen, as until it does, the topic will never solely be about our DC. If giving up an hour of my time to him this week will ultimately benefit them, and finally lay to rest any thoughts of reconciliation, then I'm seriously considering it.

alice whatever feels best for you. It's also really nice of you to consider you MiL. KD is estranged from his parents but if recent messages are anything to go by, he's also trying to repair his relationship with them, stating they may be a positive influence on his life in the future. Not sure how, his mum is a narc and his dad never had time for him. There was also mention of them seeing our DC, although the last dealings I had with them, they said they would see the twins but DD1 is a lost cause. So that won't be happening if it continues to be their stance.

FWIW, Curt, we HAD this conversation on Saturday. I told him repeatedly that I wasn't interested in getting back together... in fact these exact statements were made:

• I'm happy being single.
• I'm happy with the way things are, just me and the dcs here.
• I don't trust you, and I don't think I ever can again.
• I don't want to be in a relationship with you again.
• I don't want to get back together.
• You need to focus on getting better for yourself and for the dcs, to be a better father. NOT for me. I am not part of it at all.

And yet.. he walked away with the idea that we are going to get back together. How can I be more clear than that?? I will point out that while I wobbled a bit to myself the other day, I did not wobble At. All. when talking to him, as I did not want to give mixed messages.

How can that be unclear?? He only hears what he wants to hear.

I suspect Curt that you will end up with the same outcome. You will very bluntly say "no" and he will hear "yes" and nothing will change.

Curt, if he were a reasonable person who could hold a reasonable conversation then I think yes, have that conversation. Indeed, if you want to feel you have tried that approach, then also fair enough.

But I am sure you have told him the relationship is over already; you are certainly acting like the relationship is over, the only reason he wants to talk is because he thinks he can change your mind.

I don't know, it is just wearing, the number of times you have to say something. The crap which went on after the end of my marriage lasted a good 15 months, and he now won't sign the necessary papers.
A person who is controlling does not easily give up control; he's not going to do that until he feels sufficiently in control in other aspects of his life. Like Alice, I had the conversations where he came away saying, well, that was constructive, I feel we are making progress, and I thought WTF, I spent the whole time saying there is no future to this marriage.

Though given that he is blocking the divorce, we are still married, there is clearly a future of sorts. I don't talk to him, though.

I had the conversations where he came away saying, well, that was constructive, I feel we are making progress, and I thought WTF, I spent the whole time saying there is no future to this marriage.

Yep, that pretty much sums up Saturday's discussion. Really makes you wonder, doesn't it? I mean, what exactly do they HEAR???

I say "I do NOT want to get back together.."

he hears "blah blah blah get back together.."

alice ..pretty much everything you listed there, are things I've reiterated over and over via text.
*I am happy single
*DC are happier
*I'm happier just being me and DC
Etc...

But. These things haven't been said face to face since we separated. Obviously I ended it by leaving, moving into a new house with our DC and attempted to disengage from KD. But somehow he seems to have processed this as 'we need time apart..we need to reassess our marriage.

bluebell He's said more than once that having 'space' has helped us immensly. He seems to see our separation as a 'blip' while we get back on track..ie..not permanent. He's also said he won't divorce me. It's like they rewire their brain and as alice says, when we say 'I don't want to get back together', KD hears 'blahblahblah get back together'

I think with mine it is that he has no respect for anything I say. It used to be that we needed to communicate better when I didn't fall into line; now he is just dismissive. I don't believe after over a year and a half he sees reconciliation as an option, that was in earlier days after we split; more it is that he won't let me divorce him because that is really me usurping my position and a bit of a cheek. So we are at stalemate.

As I said, if he was reasonable, he would listen to what you have already said. It is not rocket science.

Hi thanks for the welcome.

I will try and keep it brief. Back in 2011 after not getting on very well due to alot of stresses in our life me and 'ex' decided to have a trial separation, we had a long emotional talk about it and he had realized the pain he had caused me in the past (messed me about when pregnant with 1st child, subsequently left me when he was only a few months old and got with someone else but kept coming back to me,got back together when she dumped him, then also messed me around 2nd pregnancy, still not sure what he was up to and stopped after I had a massive breakdown a week before DD was born), he was tearful and agreed to move out so we could get finances sorted and have some space etc but said he loved me and was going to do everything to make things better.

He was suppose to go stay with a friend but wouldn't go but kept on at me to claim single parents benefits so we could start getting the finances sorted, kept saying he would go that night etc, but he never would, I claimed the benefits and felt as though I had to push him away at that point because I was very nervous about the interview I had to go to at the job centre for this etc. About two weeks or so after we decided on the trial he took a old female friend out for the day, he never told me this I just knew, he also told me he stayed at a friends that night, but later found out he stayed at hers, I ended the trial separation as I found this totally unacceptable, and he stayed with a friend. Anyway he was obviously hanging around with this girl and 4 months passed, I asked him several times if he had slept with her he always denied, we started getting intimate again and I basically found out he had been in a relationship with her and living with her for 4 months, the whole time calling me paranoid whenever I questioned if he liked her. This seems worse than any of the other lies, to lie for 4 months solid astounded me.

I informed OW and she ended it with him (he says he had already ended it, but she didn't seem aware of that)
After that he started doing everything for me, cooking, cleaning you name it, done more with the kids etc, we had a few intimate encounters but this was always when I had a drink he always tried it on, he can be persistent in the bedroom...not violent more just wont give up, there was also a little bit of hysterical bonding going on on my part aswell I think.

He started leaving really late and eventually wouldn't be gone before I wanted to go to bed and I would find him on the sofa the next day, he wore me down about moving back in we argued so much about it and I got really stressed and had pressure from his nan whom he was staying with etc, he kept saying its not his fault its his home etc, so I gave in and cancelled my benefits (also neighbor was spreading rumors I was fiddling the benefits as he was always blood there) so I got scared and he moved back in, we are joint tenants on a private house so he had every right to live there. In hindsight I should have got help then to stop him moving back but it would have caused chaos.

Roll on 3ys and this is the situation we are stuck in still. We tried counselling like he asked as at the time that was the last thing to try, the first counselor questioned why he had moved back in against my wishes and said that wasn't going to help etc, didn't like that so refused to see her again. Saw another, everytime his mistakes were raised he didn't want to talk about it as he only wanted to talk about the positive things. He blamed me for not going into it fully committed to the relationship, after many sessions and lots of money he eventually stormed out because I said I didn't want to be with him,I just wanted a amicable separation, counselor told me she couldn't help us anymore to get through a separation until he accepted it, so we never went back.

We have had good days and done stuff and I have tried but its not the same anymore, Ive never once said we are back together but have done stuff, usually after being hounded to, days out etc, most things I did for the sake of the kids to try and keep things normal for them, regret this now. He now wants to move area (something we have wanted to do for a long time) and that is the last chance now. He said we should move and if it still doesnt work out he would move and would get a solicitors letter to back this. We did look for a bit but due to his rubbish finances and changing jobs a few times it hasn't happened. My DS is now starting high school next month and I don't want to uproot him now. He refuses to give up until we have moved so he knows he has tried everything (even though I know deep down if that doesn't work there will be another last thing to try or he will blame me in some way)

He blames me now for things not working, because I wont give it a try and I wont commit. I'm selfish and I'm going to fuck the kids up if I make this choice to separate. Passed few months when we argue he literally just shouts me down and I can barely get a word in. He sends me massive long essay texts or leaves notes going on about how he can make me happy and I need to just put some faith in him and the kids don't need it etc
He refuses the leave and says he is holding this family together as Im intent on breaking it up.

I know its emotional blackmail.

He can also have a very short temper and to be honest looking back I think we have stayed this way as I haven't wanted to rock the boat, I can see when he is losing it and I back off. He has put his fist through a door in an argument before and thrown stuff etc, or he can just swear in a very aggressive way just doing things round the house when he gets fed up with me being unhappy/moody etc and I do feel as if I have to try and be a bit nicer, more interactive to stop this, I fear he will take it out on the children also as he can lose his temper with them aswell especially my son, who has had some behavioral problems.
recently.

He has done a few little manipulative things aswell, for example, DD asked for a kitten, we discussed it I said no, came home from work on her birthday to find he had organised and got one from a friend behind by back, he said if there is any problems she will go back and he will look after her etc, knowing damn well when DD came home 10mins later and see it I wouldn't be able to get rid, I had to put a smile on for my DD. Also he wanted to go for a short break to butlins, I said I didn't want to, we didn't need to in mid may, we had a massive row, made it clear I didnt want to be with him and also I didnt want to go on holiday, and we couldn't really afford it. The kids heard all this (sometimes they do) he then at dinner told the kids he needed to talk to them and started the tears, kept me guessing as to what he was going to say, pulled out a brochure for disney land and told the kids he wasnt going to tell them yet but he is running out of time and was going to take them, I told him not to promise something he cant give and he told me to f-off.
Few days later he informed me he had booked a break to butlins on a super deal! When I replied that I had told him I didnt want to go why did he book without consulting me, he just went on about not splitting the family up, stop making a pain in the arse of eveything and see that he loves me, we need to do stuff as a family and have time to talk etc, I suggested he take the kids on his own, and maybe start being truthful with them he refused saying he wasnt going to do the separate holiday shit and we are not separated, and he wasnt going to tell them the truth cos it wasnt the truth!

Whenever I say we are separated he just yells back that we are not.

Very stressful few weeks running up to the holiday he booked as I was still saying I wasn't going to go, but he was still refusing to take them anyway, so therefore I felt guilty, if I didnt go they didnt go and it was all booked and paid for. He later had a go at me for being a miserable cow whilst we were there.

Maybe I will post some more incidents later as this post is turning out to be quite long! Sorry

I called women's aid last week anyway and she said he sounded controlling, and the hitting furniture etc is because he feels like he is losing control and this is the way to gain back that control, she warned me that he could get violent, specially if I make the decision to move with the kids on my own, which I have been looking into doing.

I think its getting worse because I am distancing myself more and more while he still acts as if we are together.

What do you all think, sorry it was long, there is a lot more aswell!!

I have to agree with the counsellor. He has his own reality, and when that reality is challenged in any way, he gets violent. Be very careful!!

I've been guilted into a holiday because of worrying about the DCs, too, Bizkit.

He sounds awful. He doesn't listen to you or take you seriously and has managed to keep this farce going for too long. It is totally mind-spaghettifying to say something over and over and have it ignored or for him to act like you haven't said it or didn't really mean it. I lived that for so long. It's so draining.

I don't suppose you could get him to move first with the idea of you joining him afterwards, when DS has finished term or something? And then of course never go. Or would you consider moving out of there yourself?

I don't really have any good advice, except keep on listening to yourself and what you want, even though - and especially because - he isn't listening to you.

You will get a true separation!

bizkit, that sounds exhausting. He is being a controlling bully. Did Women's Aid offer any practical advice for leaving?

The moving is a red herring, how will it change anything? If you move, you will be further from friendship networks.

Can you afford to move with dcs to your own place?

KD has asked to bring MIL and come over to visit at my house next time. I've said no. I'm not repeating the mistake of bringing him into my house again. That immediately seemed to catapult him into thinking there was progress in reconciliation.

So I think that I will have to relax the rules ever so slightly the other way and take them to MIL's house. It's her birthday coming up and I want her to be able to see them. KD is always home as he is not working, so there is no chance of the dcs seeing MIL without KD around. I can hardly demand that he leave the house, and I do not want to encourage MIL to drive.

My concern, of course, is that KD will turn it into an opportunity to play happy families. So I will be bringing them there, but taking myself off to the corner of the front room and reading quietly, even if I have to claim having a headache. That will force KD to take care of the dcs in the other room with MIL and I can be nearby in case he cannot cope with them or to step in if he behaves inappropriately. I can also keep an eye on the dcs quietly in case they get into anything dangerous and it's not caught by KD.

I don't really know what else to do. I won't go into the whole thing, for any that are new, suffice it to say that KD has to be supervised around the dcs and MIL is not able to supervise appropriately. So that leaves me, as there really is nobody else.

He wouldn't be able to move on his own no, he is rubbish with money and has a few debts, I think I have always been his safety net really as I'm the opposite and in bad times it's me that makes sure the bills are paid, as long as he has me and the kids he will always be alright with money...will never be out on the street. I think this is part of the reason he just won't let go.

Also his having no money most of the time make it hard when I'm telling him to leave as I know he has no where to go, I know it not my problem as people have said before but in reality I can't kick out the father of my kids, who helps looks after them, when he has nowhere to go. Unfortunately even if he was in a financial position to move he still wouldn't do it cos he knows he is better off here.

It's the fact he won't even accept it's over and if it was just a case of waiting to separate properly until we were financially able to do so I think it would be a lot more bearable, it's his complete and utter denial that worries me.

I could move on my own within the borough I'm already in, recently sort advice about how much help I would get benefit wise and actually I think I would be alright, it's just a case of finding a landlord who will accept a tenant who will be in receipt of housing benefit from the start, which I think is the hard bit and finding somewhere decent aswell.
I'm very hesitant to do this as it would be a big upheaval for the children, plus I have a few neighbours I rely on to look after kids, one takes them to school for me in the morning, I feel a huge resentment to be the one to have to go when it would be so much harder for me, and to be honest I don't feel strong enough to go through it on my own especially with him giving me a constant ear bashing along the way. I have got the info and have a few estate agents recommended, and women's aid gave me a number for a place where I can get a outreach support worker? To help me through, but i still haven't made that call.

I haven't told ex (fw? Not sure what that means is it fuck wit? )
As I just know the minute I hint that I have got the info and that I'm gonna go ahead all hell with break lose.
I have said before I will seek advice about moving myself and he goes mad and says I'm not doing that and I'm.not taking his kids away from him. Has even suggested I move on my own and leave the kids with him, 'if I wanna do that shit don't drag the kids through it'

At the moment we just don't say much to each other, carry on with everyday life as best as poss, arguments inevitably happen every few weeks or so as the tension builds up.