Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

alice it seems you've thought it through reasonably and personally I think it's a good compromise, and it does mean KD will have to concentrate on DC rather than on you. Some might say you shouldn't have to compromise, but occasionally I do think those rules have to be relaxed, particularly as it's yoir MiL birthday. One bird, two stones. Makes sense to me.

The thing I find with KD is he's more likely to play happy families when contact is in town/park, than he is when we're in my home. Out and about and he's playing daddy/husband and I sort of automatically fall into my 'roll' of mummy/wife. I've had a few texts from people saying they saw us out and we look happy/asking if we're getting back together. Whereas if he visits in my home, once he's settled with DC, I can detatch slightly and busy myself with a few distractions, whilst keeping my eye on DC.

It works for me. I know many don't advise it but the bottom line is, I do what works best for me and DC, and that's what works best for now.

Curt When he came into my home for visits, he spent the whole time either talking to me or watching telly, and either ignoring the dcs or shouting at them. He'd expect me to deal with the dcs and he didn't bother to engage with them at all. I guess when I say "happy families" I actually mean he reverted right back to the way he was when we were together. Which really wasn't happy families, was it? I had to put a stop to it after 9 long months because it just was suffocating - it felt like he hadn't left.

alice I know what you mean about feeling like KD had never left! In the first few months of us separating, KD was exactly like that during contact, but I made it very clear that if he continued, he wouldn't set foot in my home again and he could take me to court for visitation. He seemed to get the message and has since (when he bothers to turn up) 'behaved' himself wrt verbal abuse/strops. He does still try to talk about our relationship, but our DC are at an age where they're full on and need constantly entertaining, hence him asking if we can meet for a child free coffee this weekend 'to discuss things'.

On the whole, he interacts better with our DC when he's in my home as when we're out they're quite..boisterous..which makes him irritable and impatient with them. Obviously it isn't a great option for you, but as my KD acts decently in my home, it works for me.

Yes, see the difference between us is that my KD gets irritable and impatient with the dcs at home, and feels free to shout at them and get aggressive, sometimes physically. And he was less and less cooperative about leaving.

I brought up this behaviour to him when I last saw him, and even then, he was minimising it. Glossing over it. I'm waiting to see how long before the mask slips again.

In public he is more worried that other people will see his behaviour - he is much more careful about it in public.

Complete opposite then..although I suspect KD's 'good behaviour' in my home stems from an ulterior motive which has nothing to do with parenting.

He was always difficult to be out and about with, thought nothing of stropping out of a cafe or walking out of a shop in a huff. I don't have the patience to put up with that kind of ridiculous behaviour any more, our 3 toddlers behave better than that!. When people have noted that we look 'happy' out together, it's usually because I've run myself ragged keeping him sweet by keeping DC as quiet as possible, which meant he was doing nothing at all but being magnanimous with buying meals or whatever.

Curt I think that is why KD was so well behaved in my home the other day. I worry that as soon as it sinks in that I really am NOT interested in getting back together, he will return to the FW behaviour again.

When people have noted that we look 'happy' out together, it's usually because I've run myself ragged keeping him sweet by keeping DC as quiet as possible, which meant he was doing nothing at all but being magnanimous with buying meals or whatever.

So SO SOOOO this!! He generally tries to rein it in when we are in public, for fear of looking bad. But sometimes he slips. And I spent time "talking him down" because otherwise it was just so humiliating when he went off in public. Thankfully it didn't happen too often, as he was never sure who might be about that knew us.

Bizkit, give WA a call - an outreach worker could help you think through the different options open to you.

It's true, though, that where and how he lives is his problem. That's one of the aspects of separation that you may not like to begin with! It's fair enough to be interested in his welfare as far as contact with the DCs might be affected by it, but more than that, meh. He is an adult. And one you would rather not have around you.

Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of how to remove this bad smell from your immediate surroundings...

No surprise that he thinks the DCs would be better off with him than with you and I'm sure it's no surprise that we on this thread don't believe him. :o

Alice, your plan sounds a sensible one.

Alright, I've arranged the contact at MIL's. I set it for 10am, as I figure that will naturally come to a conclusion at noon so I can take the dcs home then. No long day with KD, no "happy families" stuff. Should be okay, if a bit stressful.

Bizkit, I agree with Charlotte that you should ring WA about an outreach worker. Maybe seeing leaving as a series of steps would help, each little step takes you closer to your own life; whereas looking at everything at once seems quite daunting and impossible. The outreach worker will have lots of experience and help with various scenarios.

I think the fact that you are worrying about his money issues and ability to support himself shows that you are a compassionate person. He is exploiting that. He could be responsible and look after himself if he wanted to. It is amazing what powers they suddenly discover when they have to look after themselves.

I think the suggestion that you leave the kids is part of the FW script which also includes threatening to go for sole residence. FW= fuckwit, yes.

The other thing is that all hell breaking loose when you mention leaving is a means of control. I would not even tell him you are looking at your options till it is all lined up and you are good to go, whatever that looks like. The fact that he is in denial means he is denying you a voice and denying you your wishes on the matter. Again, a form of control. Here, I think it is important to have appropriate support to help you get separated safely. You do have the right to leave the relationship.

More I think about it the more I really feel angry about even having to look at my options to move.
He's the liar and deceiver, why should I have to go through the upheaval of everything.
On the other hand if he moved and I stayed he would never let me move on, he would always see it as his house and still come and go as he pleased and probably still have his stuff here,as he did this before, so me moving would make it a cleaner break. I suppose I'm sorta holding off as my DS starts high school in a few weeks and I don't want to put him through the stress, then it will be DD's birthday, i know there is never a right time. If I got a support worker I'm worried I would be pressurised into doing something I'm not ready for.

I wish I could just make him see what damage he is doing.

We had a council property, and I've stayed in it. KD even willingly took his name off the tenancy (I suspect at that point he felt this was just a tiff and it wasn't that big a deal). But yes, there is an ongoing struggle over boundaries when he is here, which is why (other than one stupid mistake) I don't let him in. He always refers to it as "the" house, as opposed to saying it's my house.

And it's not a "I've got nothing" thing - he lives with MIL, and she owns her house. He is her only living son, so when she eventually passes, he'll be the owner of a fully paid off house. He will effectively be on the property ladder. I will NEVER be able to afford to buy a house.

It's a matter of what he thinks is his. He asked more about the appliances and DIY I've done than he did about the dcs.

*bizkit, there is never a right time, but there is a time which you feel more comfortable with, as therefore you are more likely to cope. I cannot believe an outreach worker would pressure you, they will just help with options and making it more manageable in your own time.

I understand the feelings of anger, you will run the whole gamut of emotions, regardless of whether you are in the house or not. I stayed in our house as it was mine and it is hard to get rid of the sense of him being there. It takes time. I cannot easily sleep in what used to be our bed, which leaves me with a problem! I cannot afford to move. There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways.

Bizkit I have to agree, there just is never a "right time" to separate.

Bluebell This is why I am doing so much DIY. The living room furniture has been replaced and the it's completely redecorated on a budget and looks amazing to me. Furniture from second hand shop but I absolutely love it - doesn't need to be expensive - I paid total of £55 for a sofa, armchair and dining table for the living room. But I took my time finding them and looking for stuff that was just right at the right price. We had ds1's bean bag chair from his room as a chair in the living room for months until I got the chair I wanted. The hallway and entryway are completely redone (again on a budget, doing all the work myself). And soon it will be the bedrooms (including buying a new bed and bedding, which I am REALLY looking forward to!). It makes the house "mine" and as silly as it sounds, it makes a huge difference to me. Are there changes you can make to your house that are affordable that will make it seem more yours?

Bizkit, I sometimes wished my WA worker would pressure me more! But they are trained and they understand the situation you're in, including the pressure you get from him - there will be absolutely no pressure put on you by them.

bizkit KD refused to budge when I told him I wanted to separate, so I borrowed a small amount of money from my brother and found a house near to my parents. I was very lucky to get an understanding private landlord who waited 2 months for my housing benefit to kick in properly. Yes, it was awful that I had to uproot our 3 toddlers from their home, and I left with practically nothing, just DC's bedroom furniture/beds and some kitchen stuff. He lost the family home by not paying the rent and declared himself homeless. Luckily I was able to get all our furniture before that as he kept telling me to 'come and collect my shit'..so I did. I now have all the family furniture although I had to scrape to buy cooker/washer/fridge freezer as they were fitted in our last place.

He ended up in a hostel of his own doing. The money was there to pay the rent, he jist chose to spend it on nights out etc, so it's his fault he ended up with nothing, not mine. He now has a house up the street from me and got a two grand grant for brand new furniture. See, they always land on their feet. The good thing is, when KD walks into my house, it's mine and was never his home. Makes a huge difference, I think. It was hard, but it was worth the upheaval.

I moved out two weeks after christmas, and no, there's never a 'right time' to do it, you'll just know.

Of course he blamed losing the house on me, because he was used to me dealing with all the bills, rent included. Perhaps if he had taken on a few reaponsibilities within the marriage instead of doing bugger all and leaving me to pick up the slack and keep us out of debt, he would've realised you can't blow the rent on all nighters and expect to still have a roof over your head. Sorry for the rant!

Oh and of course he initially didn't tell me he'd lost the house, he told me he was moving into a friend's to flat sit and would be living the life if riley, which is why he told me to collect the furniture. In 'real life', I was eventually told, he'd missed two months rent and moved into a hostel. I sound like I'm gloating, I'm really not, I just think if he'd been sensible it would never have happened.

KD has run up more debt since we separated. I don't know how much, but I do know they're hassling him, as he has complained about it (to which I respond that I don't care and don't want to know). I know he took out a credit card, maxed it, and now can't pay it back.

FFS he was living with his mum - he had no living expenses, except his debt payments (which were very low as when we were together I helped him work out lower payments with the creditors), and maybe a small amount to his mum to help out, and he was working. God only knows what he was spending on.

I actually felt so guilty when I found out he'd ended up in a hostel. It took a lot of stern, inward conversations to convince myself it wasn't my fault. That once I'd left, if he got into debt or messed up the bills, it was no longer my problem. It was difficult to detach like that, I must be honest. He's my KD, still technically my husband, and I was torn between still feeling responsible for him, and knowing it wasn't my job to keep his head above water anymore.

As for running up debts..who knows what they spend it all on alice ..certainly not their DC!

Thanks guys, I think even though I have the anger of even having to consider moving I think in the long run it will be better as he won't have so much of a hold over me. I have called and left my details with an estate agent this afternoon however he has no landlords on the books who accept housing benefit at the moment plus he says having a guarantor would be best but they would have to be earning 45k a year!
It's defiantly not going to be easy.

Fw can stay in the house but he will not be able to manage the bills on his own so will have to be evicted no doubt meaning hassle for our landlord who we get on well with and at the end of it all of us losing the house, seems such a waste. If I tell him this 'I'm blackmailing him'

Curt I know. I felt guilty momentarily for allowing KD to buy tea for us the other week (takeaway about £16+) but then I thought "he's not paying ANY child maintenance, so I'm not going to feel guilty, blast it all!" And enjoyed my chinese food.

Bizkit Can you talk to the council about housing? Maybe explain the situation and see what they can advise? If they can't offer any good solutions, you're really no worse off...

alice Yes, any guilt I initially felt has long been dealt with. And I also let him buy food if he offers, I'm not exactly rolling in it so him buying us something is a treat I'll allow

bizkit It is a shame to lose the house, it was a shame KD lost ours but in the end, he lost it because he couldn't step up and be an adult, look after his money etc and that wasn't my fault, just as it wouldn't be your fault, or your problem. You'd be in your own home and he'd have to keep himself from sinking, that's what us groen ups do. Your best bet would be a private landlord like mine, happy to take housing benefit and no guarantor. Or as alice suggested maybe try the council. I have a lovely home with my 3 DC, lived decorating it, making it ours, and knowing KD has no rights to it whatsoever.

How easy was it to find a private landlord curt?
Was it just a case of keeping an eye out in the locals papers

I was lucky in as much as I was visiting my parents over the new year and they were aware I was looking to move. I had a few places to look at that I'd found in the local newspaper, and one that I'd seen in the house window, but they'd heard of a lovely house coming empty close to them. I went to have a look at the outside and a neighbour gave me the landlord's number. I gave him a call there and then, he popped over with the keys and that was that. I know I was extremely lucky with this place and an amazing landlord, but there were at least five in the newspaper that said housing benefit welcome.