Arrangements for dcs - unfair and only suit him:(

[fairiesatthebottomofthegarden]

Can anyone advise - during mediation we agreed on arrangements for him to see dc, I had no choice but to agree, he made out that he can't possibly comit to anything other than advising me each week if he would like to see them Saturday,Sunday or not at all, I had no choice but to agree really:( do I have to sign anything to make this compulsory? The finances are almost agreed and I am worried that it will all be included in a document for me to sign. I refuse to sign anything in relation to this arrangement for the children,it's ridiculous and I have only gone along so far because the children need to see him but I am not doing it forever,it's all to suit him and it's not fair on the children. Hope this makes sense, any advice please,anyone had similar? Thank you:)

Why did you have no choice but to agree? And even if you did you are allowed to change your mind.
Do you have a solicitor, if so they should sort this out for you. It's not an agreement that would seem to be in the interests of your DC and therefore not enforceable I shouldn't think.
Don't sign any agreement until you have had a solicitor check it over.

Don't sign anything that you don't agree with. Simple as that. If you can't reach a reasonable compromise, go back to mediation and hold out for what it is you do want. Read everything before signing anything. Talk to your solicitor. The children need to see him but they also need structure and some predictability to their lives. You also need to be able to plan within reason. 'Saturday, Sunday or not at all' is not a commitment and it is unreasonable.

Don't sign it, see a solicitor and remember that you do not have to obey this man. He is not the one in charge. If he stamps his little feet and has a tantrum and says he won't see the children at all then, smile sweetly, say 'Your loss' and walk away.
The best way to deal with an unreasonable man who is trying to use the DC as pawns to harass and control you is to treat him like a naughty toddler ie with amused contempt.

Hi, as far as I am aware a mediation document won't be legally binding ane.d they need to be seen by a solicitor, so I would suggest you get one involved at this stage. I would not be at all happy with what you have described and he is taking the pee in a big way. You cannot 'mediate' with people like this, he needs firm boundaries and you need something more concrete than 'maybe's'. I'd get a contact order to stop him from messing you about, he could still be 'unavailable' for contact even with that in place but it would give you something to refer to and is legally binding for both parties.

Thank you all. I haven't signed anything, he gave me little choice in mediation, on hindsight the mediator wasn't great, when I asked for something like at least every other Sunday his response was he can't cause of his work and she was like oh,it can be difficult when people don't have set work patterns:( I just felt like whatever I suggested didn't suit him so that was it. My concern was that does what was agreed over the children in mediation go into the document with the finances and then go to court to be approved? I haven't signed anything about what was agreed in mediation cause I don't agree with it. He doesn't like things set, he likes to do as he pleases when it suits him - one of the reasons I left:)

Yes, if you agree then it goes to solicitor to be looked over and signed, this is not what you want and imo mediation only works in the most straightforward cases. Head straight to solicitor and start again with some proper arrangements.

Anything that involves the children is never definitive. It's not like assets.
You can agree to this for now (or to something else), and give it a go and go back to mediation if it's not working.
An agreement is just that. Something that defines what you have agreed on and saves the hassle of negotiating all the time.

I find it surprising that he can't say what day he can more than one week in advance. Most jobs will have set rotas with at least one month in advance. Otherwise, he'll just have to arrange his life around the children instead of the other way around, as most of us do. Or his loss.

He does what suits him and the children have to fit around what he is doing:( I am not making this agreement official, many thanks for your replies:)

The problem is you can't make a man see his children or want to see his children. There is no law that can be enforced. (I am in the same situation as you op, even with a court order in place. It allows him to have contact but doesn't force him.

If he doesn't stick to the children arrangements that will not negate the financial deal once it is agreed and approved by the court. So do not worry about that.

However it can have an impact on your life. I have my children every night of the year (their father's choice). That has a big impact on how I can live my life. I work full time to support us. Their father who has much more holiday does no childcare at all. That has financial implications. It also means I never have a free weekend or even one night a year without the children to go out or do anything unless I pay someone to do babysit. This is very unfair, but the law does not allow me to force him to see them.

I think there is a bigger problem in the UK with men choosing not to see their children than women denying father's contact but the press never seem to pick up on that.

From experience, I'd only settle for regular times allowing for changes with sufficient warning (to suit you and the children) and agreed only if it suits you.

But be prepared for last minute cancellations. Always have a back up plan if you have plans for when the children are supposed to be away.

The problem with mediation is that it can only work when both parties are reasonable.

Say no no no. Agree a definitive day or tell him to get stuffed. Your not their at his convenience and neither are his children.

That's what I would do anyhow.

That was my worry greengrow,financial agreement being tied in with children - thank you:)I have learnt not to rely on him, as greengrow said I have the children all the time too - unless they are at school! I am beginning to slowly change things so that it's what suits the children and me, not been brave enough thus far but small steps:) for example - he has completely ignored the summer holidays,no mention of seeing dcs extra days in week and still can't say which weekend day until a week before - so we have made plans thank you for replies:)

I know the feeling. In fact when our youngest were smaller it was pretty difficult as I work full time and keep us all and he is a teacher - so he would have after our divorce 7 weeks off and not see the children and I would be paying heaps of money for full time childcare all summer except the one week I took them away. Ultimately it is his loss of course in terms of long term relationship with them and now they are teenagers it's much easier for me. I am interested in how any girl friend can want to date a man who doesn't see his children. I am always put off men who don't. He just sent one of the children (adult child now) his first birthday card since the divorce 10 years ago and that is because he has a new girl friend (first live in one - he asked us for a cohabitation agreement so presumably he doesn't want her to get all the money I had to give him on our divorce) who has presumably bought the card and given it to him to sign. He could have slipped £10 in with it I think but still it is a change after 10 years. Occasionally he sees the younger children.

On children and money my only point I missed out above is that if the father is paying for the children (mine doesn't) then when he has them to stay with him the amount he pays for the children is reduced. That was the case under the old CSA formula and will be the case under the new regime so there is that link. I should have pointed that out above.
Whether he fails to see the children or not will not affect any spousal maintenance you pay to him or he pays to you (not being for children) nor anything in the court order about division of assets/clean break.

Thank you:) made me feel bit better,I want the finances signed and agreed but there is no way I am making the child arrangements definitive. He likes to be the one to say when and if and the timings,if I suggest a later time he disagrees just to be awkward, he will go a couple of weekends not seeing them and has not had them overnight - I refused this in the beginning due to circumstances and he has never bothered to ask again cause it's too much for him. The children aren't stupid,already they see him for what he is. I just find it quite difficult,he has had everything his own way so far - financially and with the children, I am waiting patiently for karma

I am interested in how any girl friend can want to date a man who doesn't see his children

I think they lay on the tragedy about how they wanted to see their children but the evil ex made it so difficult they had no choice but to withdraw. Which is sometimes true, but I suspect not nearly as often as the tale is told.

I would certainly like to hear what he says to his, who seems to be trying to encourage more contact with the younger ones , as any decent woman would. She ask those she sees about it pretty easily and he has chosen only to communicate with the younger children, not with me, about seeing them since they were old enough to use email, which was pretty young compared to many children.