Why do women put up with this shit?

[Pyjamaramadrama]

I'm hoping to start this thread to help to understand why women put up with such poor partners and bad relationships.

I realise that this is one sided as men do too. But on here, predominantly women come on day after day who are in dire situations, being physically and/or emotionally abused. With men who treat them like skivvys, lie, cheat, financially abuse.

I've seen my own mum do it and have done it myself.

And no matter how many times they're told that it's wrong, and they're worth more, they just keep on looking for the answers to make that man love them enough.

I've seen a few threads today that have made me really sad, I've wanted to reach out to the op and just give them a hug and say you're better than this.

There has to be something deep rooted for women to keep living like this in 2014.

I know that there's financial implications to splitting up, worrying about the kids, what people will think, etc etc. but it has to be more than that.

To anyone sat crying tonight because your so called partner has treated you like shit, you truly do deserve better.

I know.

It's so sad and worrying because they are modelling relationships for their children and the strong possibility that they, the children will go on to accept the same shit.

I know OH and I don't have the prefect relationship but I trust him. I believe he would never hurt me intentionally. He worries when I'm ill, in pain, upset etc.

He will automatically look after me, by that I mean I don't have to ask him, so when I had surgery recently he did all 'my' household chores as well as his own, no discussion or guilt trips just automatic you can't do it so I will (we do split some household stuff on very traditional line but that's because I can't stand gardening. I love cooking, so if anything I do what I prefer, we both do our own i.e.: laundry , he does the rest and the cleaner picks up what both of us hate).

I assume that if I want to go out with friends that won't even be a blip on his horizon, other than to hope I have a good time and in some cases to be Mr Taxi man, or Mr brings me bacon and cola in the morning man.

That so many think that they have to ask permission to go out, or see a child's after looking after his own as 'helping' or 'babysitting' is so sad

The reasons are as complex and individual as people themselves. Lots of external pressure to 'be with someone' & stay in bad relationships. Comes from family, friends, religion, community, books, magazines,.... backed up with several hundred years of misogynistic prejudice that a single woman is either a failure or an object of scorn. Internal pressures can be immense as women for generations have been told they are responsible for holding a family together. So they can feel huge guilt for even considering other options.

Then you've got the sinister stuff like abuse and violence.... that puts a big layer of fear and intimidation over everything, reducing confidence and sapping courage. And don't forget money. It's been a long time since women were the property of men but far too many end up financially dependent - often voluntarily - and are then trapped by the fear of poverty if they go it alone.

So it's a complex problem

I honestly don't think that most women do.

Most women I know are in equal partnerships. And of the few who are not, most are playing along. The are not deeply in love, but are happy to play along for the lifestyle it brings.

I really think it is a minority of women (people?) who are putting up with less than equal partnerships, but the relationships are so dysfunctional that when they are revealed, people are stunned, and take notice.

I honestly can not think of one person in RL who would be willing to put up with any amount of crap, if there wasn't something in it for them in the long term.

I know of a few couples where one person in a financial whizz, and the other puts up with weird shit to coast on that. And that's actually OK, because they all know where they are at. There is a trade off.

You only really hear about stuff that is out of the ordinary. Abuse is not mainstream, it is extraordinary.

My ex constantly reminded me of the "for better or for worse" bullcrap. It took someone reminding me that there wasn't much "better" and that it was bullcrap and that I was allowed to end it to wake me up.

Plus the abuse is often a very slow process. I thought I was a strong person, someone who wouldn't put up with any shit, but over 8 years, bit by bit, he chipped away. It doesn't happen overnight. The next thing you know you're not the person you once were. It almost becomes normal. I've left now but the world seems a different place to what it was when I was single last time. Or maybe it's my self esteem that's changed.

I can only tell you why I put up with it.

Growing up, my dad was depressed and my mum was like a tightly wound weasel. I equated having no needs with being nice. Then my first bf was gay, so felt quite rejected, and felt that any man would be doing me a favour. There was so much other stuff too. By the time I met my abusive x, my self-esteem was in the gutter. But I didn't realise it because I was intelligent and functioning, and abuse is not an assault on your intelligence, it's an assault on your emotions.

badcatbertram, yes, I was an incredibly strong person! but I also had a very low self-esteem. Every day took an inordinate amount of strength actually.

And, what cogito says, for a long time after leaving I felt that others would judge me as a failure for being single, and now, I couldn't care less if they do, I'm happier than most people so f98k anybody who pities or judges me. But it was a consideration that weighed on me for a long time.

Abuse is not extraordinary NorwaySpruce.

A quarter of all women experience ongoing physical abuse (which means that they would also have suffered psychological/ emotional abuse) in their adult lives.

I wouldn't call 25% extraordinary. That's a fairly significant proportion of any given group and it's not even counting the abuse that doesn't lead to physical violence.

I think there should be material in schools about how to spot abusive relationships, how to detect wankers and twats, basically! It's true you see a lot of the patterns on here. We should teach our children how to spot them, and how not to do this to others.

I class myself as an intelligent woman, who is a mother to two young children. I have a very responsible full on job and I have a large circle of friends. Yet, I too was a victim of emotional abuse. I didn't mean to put up with this crap and luckily I'm now free from it but I put up with it for almost 10 years. It eats away at you slowly until your self esteem deteriorates and the once confident person begins to question their whole being...am I good enough? Am I fat? Am I a good lover? Etc.
I stayed because I wanted my children to remain in their family home and attend the school in a good area. It's not easy to walk out. I'm free now but it took time and effort.

No I don't think it's rare either.

combination of factors make it not rare. society factors such as women earning less than men make them feel they need a man (as opposed to wanting the company), women have a biological clock, women are made feel bad about being single when men aren't. Men have power still! And if a woman with low self-esteem walks in to their net, well, she should brace herself. I did one of those personality type quizzes and i'm an esfj. A giver! A carer. And boy did my x know how to take.

I don't think it's rare either.

My exH was emotionally and financially abusive. My parents were abusive before that. Every boyfriend I had in between was abusive. The few men I met who weren't abusive, I didn't see for very long because I took their lack of abusive behaviour as a sign that they didn't care.

My mother told me no one would love me; I was the sort of woman men 'settle' for; I should put up with whatever crap I got from my husband because I was lucky that anyone would 'take me on'...

In my case, I stayed because I was scared of being on my own, scared of what he would do if I tried to leave, scared of what people would think, just scared.

Well lucky you Norway! I know plenty of women who put up with crap myself included. I am attractive intelligent and I can be very funny. But I only realised that 3 years ago. 39. I wasted 9 years on a twat who eroded my non existent self esteem.
I also want to grab these posters and hug and shake them in equal measures.

I think it's a combination of your early family and home life, the relationships you were modelled as a child and of course the messages society throws at you over and over again.

Women keep being told that the outcomes for the children of lone parents are bad. (Without being told why: money.) We are also told (in a way that men aren't) that we are responsible for relationships - everything we are groomed to do by teenage magazines, films etc. show women are the guardians of the relationship. We are expected to hold it all together and do the emotional work of the keeping our relationships romantic while raising happy functional children. Our culture and media bombards us with these messages from the time we can first start to become aware of them.

So when women live with horrible abusive men (whether those men are physically abusive or not), they have already internalised the notion that they need to keep the relationship going; that's their job and to give up on a relationship is more of a failure for a woman than for a man. At the same time, the punishment for ending a relationship if you have children, is poverty: maintenance levels are shit and given that most non resident parents don't pay anyway, largely academic. So the practical and psychological impetus to stay with an abusive partner, is much stronger than that to leave. With few exceptions, women only leave abusive relationships when it has become so unbearable that they feel they've run out of choices. But it takes a long time to get to that stage because the terrible failure that giving up on a relationship represents to women, is one we don't want to face.

But the thing that I don't get is WHY these men think they can get away with being abusive and controlling!! Who gave them the power! This 2014!!

I have 2 DS and am trying to bring them up to respect women, to see them as an equal and to treat them with consideration.

Not as articulate as other posters but for me it's a combination of

1. singledom in women is seen as a pitiable state, as if you've failed to snare a man. Single women are usually either mentally "fucked up" or crazy cat women. Therefore the pressure is on to be in a relationship.

2. what's been your norm when growing up. What have your parents modelled to you day in/day out about the male/female dynamics of a relationship? Did your dad treat your mum with respect as an equal partner? Did your mum have independent interests and hobbies? Did they both teach you that you're special, precious and deserve to be treated as so?

3. women's are taught to be people pleasers. The ones who work on relationships and bend over backwards to Please Their Man.

Ooooh, I don't know
I think there is a danger that what is mainly an all-women's forum gives a skewed perspective.

What you don't get here often are women posting about their great relationships- it's always about all the shit that happens.

And you don't get many posts from men suffering DV and DA which is actually on the increase.

Looking at the whole thing just on 2 accounts: wome on the whole don't earn as much as men because they tend to take career breaks or work part time, to fit in with the family so they are less able to support themselves- on average- without resorting to state aid.

Women are also the ones left with the DCs if the marriage breaks down so they tend to try to save it- often at any cost. men may find it easier to walk away.

There is also evidence though not everyone agrees that men are able to compartmentalise things better than women so they get on with the day to day stuff and don't like to face the emotional stuff- better to just ignore and go down the pub.

Having said all of that I personally don't know many women who do take shit-they might work at the marriage for longer when there are kids involved but they do get out in the end if it can't be saved.

"...WHY these men think they can get away with being abusive..."

I think it starts from a point of selfishness. A particular type of person (and it is not exclusive to men, of course) regards others as simply being there to do their bidding. They are life's users and takers, employing whatever tactics they can get away with and not caring who gets hurt in the process. Manipulation, coercion, withdrawal/granting of favour, control, nit-picking, guilt-tripping etc. IMHO I think women do this sort of head-fuckery thing particularly well (if 'well' is the right adjective) as it doesn't depend on physical strength.

Add a callous streak and they actually start to enjoy hurting others and seeing them squirm. So now you're in the area of threats, intimidation, aggression, violence to get their own way. This is where men tend to score because they have a physical advantage. The worst thing of all is a bully that thinks there are no consequences and that they can act with impunity.

I am bumping this post just in case anyone who is 'putting up with shit' happens to have just logged on.

Considering the question of why men think they can get away with being abusive, I think that's a really interesting one and there's a few reasons just off the top of my head, but I think prob loads more:

Men are socialised to see women as "other" - not quite as grown up and serious and worthwhile as them, a bit trivial and shit; they are bombarded with images of women as young, sexualised and not very powerful, used as commodities and not the default human as men are, while the images of men are as people, all sorts of people; the images of women are much narrower. So behaviour that they wouldn't dream of displaying to a male friend, becomes OK with a woman. They may not be proud of it, but they feel slightly more entitled to do it, than they would feel with another man.

Most of us have been brought up to sub-consciously believe that the onus for ensuring our relationships are good, lies with the woman rather more than with the man, so if it is going wrong, it's probably because she's doing something wrong which is affecting his behaviour; in the end, a relationship not working, is probably the fault of the gatekeeper of the relationship not doing her job properly - instead of bringing out the best in him, as is her job, she's bringing out the worst in him. So it's back to being her fault again, letting him off the hook. I think that attitude is very deeply ingrained in many people, men and women, even though they're not consciously aware that they have that attitude and that also contributes to these abusive men's feelings of entitlement.

Then there's the silence about it. Women feel deeply ashamed and embarrassed and disappointed when men treat them like shit because they feel like it's their fault that they chose the wrong man: because of this guardian of the relationship role, the fact that they've chosen a man who is a bit shit, is a huge failure that they've made - it reflects badly on them, that their partner behaves badly toward them. So they feel too ashamed to confide in their social circle, about the extent of the abuse they may be putting up with. Men know this. They know they can count on women's silence. Even the ones who are in denial about what shit-bags they are, will frame this silence as loyalty, solidarity to the relationship etc. rather than a wish not to have to admit that they have failed to fulfil their relationship role competently (because most of us aren't consciously aware that we have that notion deep down in our psyche).

I'm sure there must be several other reasons as well.

I know, it's sad and depressing but on here you only hear the negatives, happy women are not going to post on here about how wonderful their marriage is.

I do agree though that some women just do not value themselves enough and almost display an act of having more respect and value for the man than themselves, that's what I find sad, you can't love anyone any more than what you should love yourself.

Plus, as women we don't want to ever give up and keep trying in the vain hope things will change and get better.

Fundamentally nobody wants to lose their relationship.

I have a middle aged female friend, single for nearly 5 years now, she still continually ditches her friends and even her kids for men she has barely known, only for them to dump her from a high height, this has happened so many times yet she still does it and goes back for more.

There is maybe an element of education about all of this.
Both my adult DCs went to uni and are now sharing in mixed shared houses, as they did throughout uni. I don't think either sees the opposite sex as 'other' and in fact they each prefer sharing a mixed house for 'balance'.

They are all working professionals and although having a 1:1 relationship is different, I know that, I still think that having time on your own before getting into a serious relationship is helpful because some 'entitled' men have moved straight from being waited on by Mummy to the same by their wives/ partners.

I wonder if marrying too young but also having children young puts some women into a situation where they have low self esteem, have never worked and supported themselves and are therefore more likely to put up with a shitty relationship because they don't know how to do otherwise.

I know this doesn't apply to all women- look at Nigella- Oxford educated and still lapped up abuse.
But one solution for women is to make sure they don't need to depend on a man financially- in fact not to 'need' a man at all for anything.