Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair and left us - WE ARE MOVING ON!)

[Dee34]

Hopefully, I have done this correctly?!

Old thread here Thread1

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Hi Well

Sorry you have had a rotten Xmas with revelations and the angst that goes with that. Of course you are struggling. You would not be human if you weren't. You took your relationship seriously and it is absolutely natural and 'ok' to be feeling such pain. I would whisk it away in a heartbeat if I could as i know the devastation of it but it makes you a good person to be feeling it as you were loyal and loving and caring when married. It just sucks and I know from experience that nothing can make it any better aside from that old cliche time and even then you have your ups and downs.....in terms of meeting up nothing yet but we are hoping for NY Day in central London so if you are around PM us!!

Now as requested, not sure I can do justice without acting it out but will try. So. Imagine someone with accent posher than Queen (she went to Switzerland for finishing school)......she rings daughers house and I answer as thought was daughter who was at hairdressers. She asks about DS and what he is having for Christmas and how grandparents are excited to see him etc.....she then says (trying to make me feel better as she has three children) - and imagine super posh accent in a kind of trendier Maggie Smith on Downtown Abbey kind of way....

'Oh only children are a delight, I taught in a school and only children are so lovely. You do know my youngest daughter (Y - the younger sister of my friend) is having a baby in February when she is nearly 40. Her daugher is 6. Rather her than me having another baby at that age I don't know what she is thinking, silly girl it sounds quite ghastly to me, you should thank your lucky stars you are not up to your elbows in shit and piss again darling, one shudders and I am only the grandparent.....'

Followed up by 'How are you, how is your morale'. Me: I'm OK thank you X, bit difficult year but gettting there....X:

"Honestly. [daugher] has told me what has been going on. Men are such FUCKERS. Dreadful. All of them. You know I divorced [daughter's] father when she was young. Mind you to be fair he was actually quite a nice man. The problem is he was terrifically terrifically dull and actually quite mean financially so he had to go, it was like being held hostage at a ball with a dreary great aunt that would only buy you non-vintage champagne. My second husband Z. Now he was an absolute SHIT. Won't elaborate but would make your hair curl. My third husband A has his moments. Honestly. Taken en masse they {men} should all be rounded up en masse and shot. The Bolsehviks has the right idea really although I am partial to Faberge so it was a shame they destroyed so much of that. You know my step son is fucking around on his wife with an 8 month old. Mind you she was married before and had two children so should have known that some men become babies when their wives have babies and can't deal with being second fiddle. WHAT FUCKERS. I prefer dogs, honestly, so much more loving and undemanding and mostly more intelligent. That said he [ex} sounds like a very bad egg indeeed and you know there are some nice eggs even if they are a bit simple. You just need to look pretty and pretend you listen to them and if you want you will marry again. [entirely non-sequitously]...'does he cunt'...Me: Sorry X, what did you say. She: Cnting'. Me: Its a bad line sorry X (thinking what the F is she talking about'. She: 'Cnt...if he can Cnt, you should get your parents to busy UNO, its a terrific game for little ones.... ; ) ....Such a funny conversation and so very Dunkirk spirit....like I say, possibly doesn't translate but like a Catherine Tate sketch!!

Lots of love xxxx

love it dolly,so wish i got more maintenance so i could fly to london,ps we got UNO for xmas ,lost the rules.
new tricks is on tv.,dd just spotted James Bolam,Its Grampa in my pocket

Dolly, you have cheered me up IMMEASURABLY with that post - if I was the type to use facebook I would re-post super fabulous posh lady's comment as my status....

It made me cry too. Thank you for your kindness. It means more than you will ever know. My children have been returned to me and we are snuggled up watching toy story. The dreadful shit that is my ex will be on a plane in the next 7 hours and I am feeling much more relaxed. He has been told in no uncertain terms that the children and I deserve a good life and to be treated with respect and humanity and I will not be taking any nonsense from him. Now we can get back to our new lives and look to the future.

I don't think I will make a london meet up on NYD (I am up in the woolly wilds of the north east where there are dragons and goblins and such like), but I hope you all manage to do it. I want you to report back with tales of cocktails and private members' clubs and snogging of minor royalty and formula one drivers etc.

So going from throwing out ideas about spending time together as a threesome, ex now seems unable to facilitate a phone call between DS and I whilst they are in Scotland. It makes me feel like a right mug, having spent the last year facilitating calls between DS and ex (including those excessive twice a day calls that went on for months....). I always try and make sure that DS is away from noise/background atmosphere/in private so that he and ex can speak freely (including temp walking out of a party, stopping the car whilst driving, going into another room etc etc). I also try and make sure he is free of distractions (easier said than done) and knows that his Daddy will be calling...today, got a text to say there were eating dinner at 7.30pm (!!) and he would call when they were free. He did and all I heard was an array of voices in the background (some talking to DS) whilst I struggled to hear anything or be heard. All I could hear was echos before the line got disconnected. Sent a text message back and no reply, almost 2 hours ago....am so upset, think it's accentuated by the fact that DS is where he is (this time last year, ex had jetted out to be with then OW) and the company he is with (OW, ex, ex's parents who knew about the affair and quite possibly what ex was planning to do as they passed the tin of Roses round....). And I didn't get to say a word to DS. Again, trying to see this from the perspective that DS was probably off having a whale of a time and having fun which is good....but, this has given me food for thought for the future. Dont want to do tit for tat, but seems a bit unfair (though I may just be being sensitive). Also, this is the first time that ex has reacted like this when I have phoned. If he had been here, he would have phoned back or sent a text back, so again, the paranoid me is thinking that he is sat there being geed up by his wife, parents, friends/whoever he is with - to not bother contacting me back. Thing I don't understand is his reactions given that he is the one that relies on phone calls (and is more insistent and demanding of them) more than me, especially with all his travel for business and pleasure. I guess I am the black mark that is there to spoil their mood by reminding them that I exist.....whinge over.

Well hugs to you. And agree with the sentiment about 2012 rolling on....can't wait as will no longer be able to think to myself 'this time last year...' and have thoughts of being with ex/being as a family/being in old house. Instead will be 'this time last year I had embarked on my new life/started new job etc etc'......hope that 2012 is better! Agree also about the playing happy families stance - sometimes I just stare at ex in disbelief (less so, as am getting used to the new him now I guess) at some of the things he comes out with or does. It's like 'do you not have any empathy or any emotional intelligence to perhaps think twice before saying x/y/z?'. My ex does have emotional intelligence, but he just cant dish it out in two directions (or at least not to me) it seems. Shame as that could have possibly made this whole journey a bit more palatable....

Dolly - love the story!

cenicienta - thank-you. I do feel guilty (even now after today's phone call farce). Yes, need to be firm with him so he doesn't come back with another suggestion (hopefully he gets that it's the idea of spending time with him that is the issue and not the location as he just went from a local playcentre to a theme park!), so its a good message to repeat that this suggestion in itself is inappropriate. Hmmmmm, think ex doesn't get the whole mutual respect thing for the other parent. Work in progress and there is only so much I can do (not a lot probably).

Patience - yes, woman in A&B is a bit like that. My anger yesterday about ex going to see them was more fuelled from rejection and some sense of preferential treatment for new wife (which of course ex is entitled to do now, just that he didn't do these things when we were together). To be honest, I would rather be here (albeit with DS though) than spending time with A&B and ex needs all the friends he can get (he doesn't have many left here), so hope they enjoy their evening.

Right, back to my ever-growing list of things to do in 2012 (latest point is to re-do the 'book a week' challenge that I did in 2007, err, before DS was born! But guess I have a fair few evenings and alternate weekends to work my way through my growing pile*).

In case I don't get back on tomorrow - wishing everyone a fantastic new year. Huge thanks for the wonderful words of wisdom, advice and straight talking from everyone. It's been a hell of a year and I know that I would not be in the position I am in now (full of hope, courage and strength, which can sometimes take a battering!) without MN and you all. A very, very un-mumsnet hug to everyone. Thank-you!

• unless I get distracted by a very nice man along the way. Please.

WTDI ,good your in the North ,we should do a Northern meet up if you fancy it !
Sorry you had to see your twat ex.They all rewrite history ,to ease their guilt,Hope no more big nasties to be revealed,hope you can start healing properly now that court and his "big news" is out in the open.Cut me in half when ex told me he was moving on and why can i not be happy for them,although he admitted it was a "friendship" for first 7 mths ,twat and a tiny part of me believed it cos he didnt actually admit it ,I know i was just completely in denial but hey ,i think its called hope.Anyway it did break me free from him and the way he dumped his kids .Big hugs WTDI and we might have a drink or 2 one day soon x

Happy New Year Everyone! Hope everyone managed to have a good one or at least an OK one and that where possible we are able to draw a line under a shitty 2011 and enjoy a much better 2012 (I feel quite far away from this but in the manner of 'if we build it, it will come' way if I write it, it may become true ; )

The lovely lovely part of the New Year was that Dee and I managed a meet up on New Year's Day for a lovely long lunch at www.deanstreettownhouse.com/ - only posting so you can imagine us and as Well was hoping for tales of private members club and formula one racing drivers, it was very club like and a bit dark, cosy and glam. It probably won't surprise any of you to know that in RL Dee is fabulous, entertaining and quite annoyingly beautiful and we talked (in a nice way) about all of you lovely ladies who have helped us throught the last year. In actual fact we even sneaked in an extra glass of Proseco at the bar post lunch as we hadn't technically toasted all of you and we felt we couldn't write to say we had if we didn't actually do it so glasses were clinked and you were all toasted appreciatively. Hopefully in a portentious way, the barman flirted with Dee and the French waiter flirted with me - neither of whom you would necessarily want to flirt with you - but still - life in the old dogs (Dee being a younger dog than me ; ) yet......

THANK YOU ALL for your sage advice, care and patience over the last year xxxx

Happy New Year!! I have had limited 'tinternet access what with being in London and then losing internet access....

Was definitely lovely meeting the very glam, gorgeous and lovely Dolly in real life (ah, Dolly, wish I was all those things! I have lasted exactly 1 day on my shake diet! I have no will power and the stack of chocs still in the house is very distracting!). And just to echo the toast to everyone - real life and virtually - who has helped/posted wonderful (and truthful advice here). It has helped me tremendously. Echoing all of Dolly's thanks too....

Year did get off to a bumpy start - what with the phone call saga (have learnt my lesson there - wont be petty when it comes to ex and his time/contact with DS, but trust me, I will think long and hard when he makes his next outlandish request). He dropped DS off and gave me a handbag as a pressie from DS! Bizarre....he also asked me if I thought he was a good dad (irrespective of what I think of him as an individual). Didnt know what to say....he used to be a good dad and no doubt he and DS have lots of fun (heard nothing to the contrary to be fair), but when it comes to the meaty, tough stuff he just doesnt seem interested for whatever reason. E.g. picking schools. Told him to go and see schools and we can have a discussion after the whole 'keep him back a year' thing....and I can bet he hasnt and applications close next Friday....have decided that I cant let him continue to drain me anymore (dunno, just feel exhausted whenever I finish interacting with him/speaking with him...even a text/email seems like a huge effort). So, hoping that this will keep me on the straight and narrow with regard to keep moving on from him and the past.

Did have a funny conversation with him the other day. I had mentioned a friend of mine (my DS and her DS very good friends) who has moved in with her new bloke, after splitting with her ex husband in Feb 2011. They started dating in April (they knew each other through work for years - him up North, she was down her) moved in together in Oct after spending most weekends together (somewhere in the middle between their previous homes). Ex had the cheek to say to me that he reckoned she/their relationship was a bit fast, considering she has a DS! Even though her DS didnt meet new parter for a couple of months and er, ex seemed to have happily forgot that HE introduced our DS to his then partner after she had been in the country for what 4 or so days (she arrived on the Sat/Sun and he did introductions on the Weds - DS had never before seen this woman and she moved in with ex from the day she arrived here). Oh and by the time Ms San Fran did move here, she has spent a total of 30-odd days with ex, on which basis he deemed that everything was hunky dory to do his introductions.....Talk about one rule for some and another rule for others.......did make me chuckle though and I was quick to point out the similarities to his situation to which he mumbled 'err, yeah, I guess so'.....Must be nice living up on that pedestal !!

Anyway, hopefully that is the end of that and hope to have less rants for 2012. Hope everyone is doing well.

Hello ladies - happy new year to one and all. We have survived so far, good news eh.

Glad Dee and Dolly got to meet up and pleased though not at all surprised to hear about the men slavering over you both.

Patience - whereabouts are you oop north? I'm in the north east - maybe we can get together for a little drinkie drinkie at some point?

Dee - your ex comes across as a very typical narc doesn't he - wants to be seen to be doing the right thing, but isn't really any substance behind it.

Ladies, I am very very low. Christmas was tough for many reasons - aftermath of court case, ex coming over to see the kids (for as little as he could get away with), a Big Birthday (me and the kids went away to the lake district which was the only way I could handle it), and now here I am - chewed up and spat out of 2011 and his country and suddenly now the dust is starting to settle I feel so lost. I have no job, no income - am currently living on premarital savings and I don't know where to start even looking for a job. I'd be laughed out of my old profession (solicitor) and I just feel stuck.

I don't think there could ever be another point in my life where I feel this bad. I have to thank the stars though that at least the kids are not going to be returned to his country. Just taking it minute by minute at the moment.

Hope you are all in a considerably better place than I am. Am looking forward to the day when the fates conspire to allow us an Aussie meet up where we can drink margaritas in the sun and wax lyrical about things that will no longer bother us.

Ooooo Aussie meet up ...loving the sound of that Well.
Little bite size pieces is how I work my way through.Solicitor sounds fabulous ,can you revise your qualifications ?I am looking at a course at Uni just now but need to seriously research the finance .Im over the border .but managed to make it to Northumberland last yr ,

Well - so sorry to read how you are feeling. You have been through such an awful lot with the court case, seasonal drama etc. I also know totally how you feel about feeling lost with no job/income/anchor. I think that Patience is right about bite sized pieces to deal with everything, taking it day by day (or even small chunks if needed). And ditto, about your previous profession. Can you update your qualifications? I did similar when looking for a PM job (not quite as interesting - IMHO - as the law!), though was able to get back into a similar role before I had to re-do my certs. Also just to add, that things will get better and your will one day emerge from all this pain. I know it is hard to see towards that point, but you will get there - you are already on that path towards a better and brighter future. This time last year if someone had said the same to me, I would have just shook my head at them, but it does, can and will pass, these current feelings. I think as several people have said at various points in the thread it is so important to recognise and own the feelings and work through them (have you tried counselling? Know it doesn't work for/suit all). Stay strong.

Not much to report here - ex is still as confusing as ever, which makes me even more convinced that there is no point trying to understand him. His latest thing now is that he wants to reduce his hours at work one day a week (only a couple of hours) to take DS to some activity/class - all fine and even good as he seems to be stepping up, but at the same time he is still not particularly bothered about what I would consider the more important things/harder aspects of parenting in particular schools etc (deadline is this week - yikes!) even though I had said to him he should go and see schools last week.....I guess I cant complain too much as if he does pull off his hours thing then at least that will mean that DS wont be stuck in nursery all day 5 days a week. Plus, am going to crack on with my business case to present to bosses regarding my hours.......I am and will always be upset about his lack of interest in schools as he wouldn't have been like this a few years ago, but feel like I can process that and move on from that discussion now. The cynic in me is half-expecting him to dig this whole schools thing up again at the last minute - cynic in that he will probably catch work colleagues/friends talking about similar....I wouldn't be surprised if this did actually happen! I think that I see ex more and more like an annoyance I have to deal with as opposed to him having the capacity to hurt me anymore (though saying that, am sure he will drop a bombshell sooner rather than later).

Ahhh, a meet-up in Oz would be lovely! Will keep dreaming of that one!

Urgghh....Ex dropped off DS earlier today. Had to chat to him about something to do with DS and asked him to please not send any arsey emails. His response: smiling, 'I don't send arsey emails' followed by a wink. A wink. Man is clearly living up a tree and I have no idea what game he is playing at (though bets are on his rehabilitation into society with new wife and my pseudo-approval by deigning to be friends with him - look, Dee34 and I can have a joke and a laugh and a cheeky wink on the doorstep; look, Dee34 is using the handbag I got her from DS for her xmas pressie....All is done and forgiven.....blah, blah.

But, I seriously cant believe that he was joking on my doorstep and winking at me like we were old pals.....Was very good and didnt flare up (the old mode of reaction) mainly because I just thought 'sad, old man' but also, couldn't be bothered, so just asked him not to wink at me again and ended conversation.

Well done Dee on the winking thing, you are SO moving on...

Don't let that guard down, detach, detach, detach!

Re schools, I know it probably feels like a huge responsibility to take on on your own, but you know DS better than anyone. Go ahead and make plans and decisions based on what you believe is best for DS. Anyone who matters will no doubt support you in whatever decision you take.

Ex could well be using this as a way to keep you dependent on him. By going ahead regardless you are sending the clear message that you would like him to be involved in these decisions but if he can't take the responsibility you are more than capable of handling these things yourself. If he questions you at a later date you can calmly and matter of factly point that out.

Hope this year is one of your best ever :)

Well. Your post made we wince with recognition. I could have posted this at any time during the first 12 months post split. In fact if you go back through this post, I probably did. I still have days when I feel like it but as cliched as it may sound the others are right. Take it piece by piece, step by step otherwise the picture is too big, too much to deal with and too very very scary. I still do. I have to go back to Oz and figure out my life as I gave myself 'permission' to come to terms with things during 2011. I still don't feel entirely ready and i'm definately not 'ok' but the big difference is I want to be and I know that I will be. I also recognise the lack of confidence in your abilities. If you were a solicitor once, studying, training, passing exams, working, there is absolutely no reason - assuming you want to - not to be wonderful at it again. It may be too early at the moment but perhaps begin to research what you would need to do to get your skills back up to speed - if in fact you do or if its a question of just jumping back in if and when you chose to? Its is daunting and hard and probably unthinkable at the moment. I coudn't find the door for the first year let alone contemplate the thought of getting up dressed, breakfasted, child cared and out to a proper job but even though I don't really want to, I know that I will be able to do it soon....it is just time and rebuilding your confidence and when you are in the awful dark place it is unimaginable that you will ever come out it but you will gradually, gradually, bit by bit. Also if you don't actually want to be a solicitor anymore, you obviously have a great brain to look at something else or apply your knowledge to some kind of other business that you would be more interested in doing. We say it over and over again but please be kind to yourself. You are doing so well, you have got yourself back home, looking after your beautiful children, going away for mini break with them for your birthday and keeping going. That is enough for now (assuming your savings can stretch a bit) and you are doing WELL.

Darling Dee, your ex does sound so hot, cold and generally a bit delusional about what his relationship with you will look like - certainly in the early years - but it sounds like you are doing AMAZINGLY well at detachment - well done you! Re schools, annoying, but honestly if he was all over it still talking about delaying a year that would be even more annoying possibly?

As for me, I'm so sad that I am leaving the UK next Tuesday (DS 4th birthday) but have a few days in HK before going home. Expecting a drop in morale in early days back but do feel a bit more positive about life after a wonderful Christening Day for DS on Sunday - one of those perfect days of winter sunshine about 70 friends and family, a sparky yet well behaved child and lots of laughter. I was stressed in the lead up to it as we had planned a UK christening with 2 children and 2 parents and thought I would be sad on the day and a bit bittersweet but in fact I was happy and proud and can honestly say that it was the first FULL DAY in a long while that I was properly happy. I also gave a little speech within which i gave a simple acknowledgement to ex's side of family and said I know grandparents, aunt, cousins and 'daddy' (didn't say his name) would have loved to have been here and are all very proud....

Ex is still overseas on his mystery holiday (judging from time of telephone calls) but I have not asked and he dodges questions from DS. He still owes me about £300 for home insurance and long standing bill but child support been paid. A few nasty emails about money type things but generally enjoying the peace and quiet of not seeing him to be honest. I'm still waking up every morning not believing it all still but I hope that this year that will occur less and less. I'm also - after a pep talk from German friend - going to try and do more positive thinking and framing of life. I'm a very 'non' self help book but I think I'm in danger of becoming a bit bittery, hard faced about things so whilst will never every forgive my ex for making me less than a fulltime mother and financially decimating me, I'm going to try and think of him and OW less and me and what I am going to do in life more. Get me. Will be buying Oprah magazine next......

Huge love
Dolly currently up here, soon to be down under ; (

-ve & +ve since post. had sent polite email to ex asking him to pay half of home insurance (legal obligation till sold) and half of bill he agreed to pay in mid-Dec as only received the December child support payment a few days ago, not these monies and please could he send.

He replied with horrid iphone badly typed, I paid December child support and have paid January child support early (he emailed this before but I have only received one payment - double checked for December)...then added 'never a thank you always wanting more'.

Now 2011 Dolly would have sent a ripper of an email saying you haven't paid and why should I have to be grateful for your shitty child support and few extra bills when you fucked off with another woman leaving your 2.5 old and me EIGHT weeks after a medical termination for a much wanted baby leaving you with enough money to swan off to the USA for a shagging month in NY and ski resorts so fuck off you fucker. Instead, taking my inspiration from Dee, I simply replied that the only payment I had received was the late December child support and as I was sending a polite reminder for legally required monies I did not think that this 'qualified as wanting more'. I then added that DS's christening had went well and to let me know if he wanted to see any photographs. Hah! distance Dolly prevails (for a while)...........

...Dee, I hope no more winking goes on (how fucking annoying for you, I could smack him on the back of the head for you), WELL I hope you are having a better day and Patience, I hope you found the rules to UNO....lets hope for a lottery win to faciliate an exotic meet up but honestly I'd go for a huge Thai villa half way with hot and cold running staff ; )

Thanks for the support - it really does help.

Re the employment situation - it really does seem quite impossible. I worked in corporate which was an area dominated by misogynist types anyway, plus have been out of the loop for 7 years, it's an oversubscribed profession in a recession, plus I just could not do the hours I'd be expected to do and take care of two little children. And currently I'm living (rent free) in the wrong area. Oh, and I hated it too. Anything else?! Um, I will be focusing I think on what I can find around this area until all the financials etc are settled and whether that's something related to law or just clerical type work I don't know. I just don't know where to start to be honest.

Am feeling slightly more on an even keel - don't know whether that's because ex has now gone and I don't need so much contact with him, or i've been taking my ADs more regularly - probably both. Now I've got over the 'which country will the children live in' I think I've sort of lost my mojo a bit and need to get it back to sort out the divorce and finances. It's very possible that ex will try to shaft me/us on that. He will most certainly be having a child(ren) with someone else and then my two will be even further down the list of his priorities. What a knobjockey.

Dee - you certainly have the measure of your ex which is good to see. The wink was definitely an attempt to rehabilitate himself into polite society isn't it. I think you handled it perfectly. My ex also claims to want to be 'friends' but fails to grasp the concept of the perfectly logically question from me of: why on EARTH would I want to be friends with someone like you? You're a parasite.

Avoid avoid avoid. I think I may have said this here before but I think it's wise to employ tactics used by the Royal Navy in a warfare situation which is to expose oneself to enemy fire as little as possible. Bit difficult when you've got kids with them unfortunately. Yes, best to treat them as one would an annoying government department that one is forced to do-si-do through the bureaucracy with, tedious though it may be. Just another point on the Long Admin List of Life.

I've reread some of your back posts Dolly and our 'formers' do sound quite similar in terms of being very 'nice' before the break up and "I love you I love you I love you I couldn't bear to be without you" which is what makes the breakup and subsequent behaviour so breathtaking. I hope the post holiday blues wont' be too bad for you. Can you book a holiday or something as soon as you get back so you have something to look forward to?

I wonder as well, since you mentioned that you were (as a family) supposed to be moving back to the UK last year if that was a factor in triggering the break up? We were supposed to be moving to the UK (as a family) this year, and I do think that the closer it came the more my ex thought - wibble, I'm too scared to leave my mummy and all my friends and my revolting pickled herring (you might start guessing which country it is at this point although I'm too paranoid to state it explicitly in case ex ever does a search on me) - better dump Wellthats instead.

Sympathies on the snotty communication from your ex. It is always very distressing to be treated with contempt, and particularly so by someone who was supposed to be your confidante and most trusted ally. I'm an oversensitive old moo at the best of times and I'm sure ex knows that and plays on it. I wonder - do any of you look at your children sometimes and, well I don't really know how to say this, but think - how much of you is me, and how much of you is him. And the bit that's him - how am I going to handle that? The shitty bit of him that is (if it's there at all), and how much do I really know you? My ds is starting to look more and more like The Former everyday and they both have his hands and it freaks me out a little bit - the constant reminder of someone who has all but destroyed you and not given a fig about it.

Just remember they are their own selves,their own unique little beings and have a different mother .They will have a different childhood and develop into their own people with their own experience.

Lordy ? as expected, ex is now stepping up as dad of the year and willing to interrupt his important schedule as an important busy man to deign to go and see one of the short-listed schools for DS. Only after I said I was going to visit a final one earlier in the week as a last minute decision, invited him along calling him as soon as the school confirmed as it was very last minute and he couldn?t make it (so he responsed by accusing me of performing a fait accompli on him time-wise and not giving him enough notice! I see it now ? it really is all about him). I do wonder if I He is going tomorrow at 2pm?..deadline for applications is tomorrow and I have already submitted DS?. I think he thinks that we will be having some big discussion (nope) which is odd as he will have only seen one school. But, as advised, just went with my own feeling and assessments (and it seems a good job I did too!).

Anyway, other bit of good news ? he is finally moving!!!By the looks of it, to the leafy side of town (nearer the train station!) ? still in the same town as he wants to stay close for DS?..which also means (bizarrely) that I am not ?allowed? to move away. He has not come out and said this, but, I sent him a list of the final schools today that I had visited (I know, I should leave well alone, but want my conscious clear that he cant say in x years time, ?you never told me this? or ?you withheld x info from me? despite his lame response on this subject) and one was not in the immediate area to which he replied that he found it worrying and unsettling that I would want to move away and so take DS away from him?..again, bonkers and totally controlling. He seems to have merrily forgotten that he has had plenty of fair access to DS since day 1 and despite having no family or a permanent house now, I am still here (cracking friends, good job and a good community environment for DS though are what keep me here). So began some mis-construed questioning and insinuations that he should be kept fully aware of my plans for DS? sake (ummm, like he kept me fully aware of his plans 12months ago for DS? sake?!). Wont point-score, and told him firmly to perhaps mind his own and I would of course keep him informed of any decisions, but my planning and thoughts on certain subjects were nothing to do with him?..he seems to disagree. Oh dear.

So, am feeling okay about the house I think ? had a twinge earlier on, as know the houses in that side of town are large and grand affairs (am imagining shutters on the window, window seats etc ?yes, am torturing myself!) and would be a dream home for me (close to town centre ? being a London girl etc). It was ex who wanted to move to where our old house was so we could get more house for our money. It was his dream house etc. So feel a bit like ?gah?! Also, wondering how DS will feel, will he suddenly love being at Daddy?s new house more than our house (knowing ex, can expect him to be throwing money at anything in the house that is connected to DS, so will kit out his room, get stuff for the garden etc?.. This will all be good for DS ? i.e. homely environment with things he will enjoy playing with, but, hmmm, feel a bit flat). Will self-medicate and buy a house-interiors mag to preen over tonight!

*PS: Just written this on work email waiting for home-time, so only just seen updates. Will post back properly tonight!

Well - ah, I see about the job situation. I second all of Dolly's excellent advice. Most definitely take your time as much as you can (finance and head-space wise). Know totally how you feel as it is a bit of a minefield and I remember feeling like I was stuck at some junction and no idea on which way to turn. You will get there. Regarding where to start, are there any organisations in your area that can offer help or advice? I know that there are some government funded companies that do this in my area as I went through them for some CV advice etc (I had pretty much put all ideas of a paid role on the back-burner when I left my old job as was aiming to do the self-employed thing, so CV was crazily out of date and I had spent the previous 10 years moving around going for internal promotions and job changes, so again, CV not really 'ready' for the external market. Think this can be a bit hit and miss though and definitely not something to do until you are ready). You've probably thought of all this though, so maybe best thing now is to give yourself some space/time to breathe - even if it's only for a short time.

Very glad to hear that you are feeling a bit better today - think the top advice I had on here from many sources was to take each day at a time. And there will be days of ups and downs to work through. Honestly, 6/7 months ago, I would have sworn blind that I would forever be thinking about ex and his OW/wife etc 24/7, but I don't. Has taken some time and working through things (on here, with real life friends, counselling, reading, all sorts). And I sincerely hope that one day - if they are still together - I can go up to ex's wife and say 'thank you very much for giving me my freedom and allowing me to be rid of ex which has enabled me to follow my true path and be happier than I ever thought possible'. That's not to piss all over the relationship I/we had or where I would have liked it to have gone - in fact, was certain it was going in terms of more children, doing more things together, growing old together. But, I can accept now that in my case, it wasn't meant to be and ex is not someone who I would ever want to be with, so he is most definitely right in his assertion that he is not for me!

Interesting theory regarding the move back to the UK for both you and Dolly.....could well be the case.....

Oh and goes without saying that he knows how to hurt you and may well be doing this (my ex does it every day I have contact with him). As you have said, avoid and detach. Agree with Patience about seeing the efforts YOUR parenting will instil in your children - it's something I keep reminding myself daily....

Love the tips from the Royal Navy tactics. Definitely something to remember next time he wheedle his way in somehow (he has now taken to echoing DS' pleas for him - ex that is - to come into our house to play when he drops him off. Which is slightly annoying as I then look like the wicked witch of the east - or is it west? - by saying no).

Dolly - so glad to hear that the Christening went well! And well done on the measured comeback to your ex! I think it's the best way, as as soon as they see any emotional reaction from you/us, it gives them a chink in the armour to chip away at. I am manically re-building my armour after a few emotional outbursts over last few months - we'll get there!

You had my chuckling at the Oprah mags....I have a stack of unopened ones (I had a subscription) here in the living room. Hmmm....maybe I should actually open, read them and 'live' the advice that is given out each month... could be another challenge for 2012! On a serious note - I think positive thinking is great, though need to keep remember to practice it!

Cenicienta - agree on the schools front and in the end, went with my own decision, so feeling happy and settled about that. I gave him plenty of opportunities and time to do his own thing, invited him to my appointments and in the end he can only manage 1 visit on the closing date for applications and I wont be surprised if he just doesn't bother going full-stop. Says it all really. And thanks for the lovely words and support - yes, hope this year is a good one, though based on last year, it can hopefully only get better

Re my ex - yes, agree, think that he is aiming for his rehabilitation back into society/possible joint friendships that we had. After all he is a pillar of respectability now that he is married, is moving house and carving out his dream step-family set-up. As Well says (and others before her), am not interested in the slightest in being friends. I have plenty of friends that I struggle to see and keep up contact with as it is, never mind that mine and ex's understanding of what a friendship is and how friends treat each other is slightly askew...

After an evening to consider, I am actually really quite glad that he has now moved away (or will be doing very soon). I wont ever have a chance to see them in my immediate area unless ex was going to work or coming to see/collect DS. I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

PS: please excuse any typo's am knackered and off to bed....

Hello All

Posting and dashing as just up from London and off out tonight with old friends...but on the train up reading mystery type novel (The Swan Thieves, Elizabeth Kostova) I read the following paragraph and thought of all you lovely women....and then seeing Dee's coments had to post. In the novel the narrator is a pyschiatrist visiting the ex-wife of one of his patients to get a back story and observes:

"I had seen so many women emotionally knocked off their feet by divorce. There were a few who didn't recover, in the sense that they sank into permanent chronic bitterness or depression, especially if the divorce became linked to some previous trauama or to an underlying condition. But most women were remarkably strong, I'd always thought; those who healed themselves were full of a deeper life afterward. Intelligent Kate, with the light from the windows catching her smooth hair, would go on to something or someone better and be content, and wise

May we all be in the last category.

WELL darling. I also want to say - without being patronising - that you are in the middle of the maelstrom and things that may seem out of your reach/ability won't be when the seas return to normal and you emerge forever changed but stronger. But it sounds like you didn't much like your job so perhaps you could use this time to think about what you may like to do that could realistically fit in with your children?? Or at least eliminate things? Or simply just be for a bit....

anyway proper post soon xxxxx

PS. Darling Dee. Oprah Sue says put the energy you put into thinking about ex new house into thinking about your next house or adding a few personal touches to your current one. Dolly Sue says I would have nosed in exactly the same way ; )

PPS. My lawyer said the same about moving to the UK ; (

Dee - ime ex will make a fuss no matter what you do (in this instance re schools). You gave him good warning but he didn't do anything about it. If you must respond to him not acting on the info you provided you could send him an email saying "choosing school tomorrow". But iiwy I wouldn't even send that. Short leash. Don't bother to dance to his tune albeit in a more subtle way re your fear that you will be accused of this or that if you don't do this or that. You will be accused anyway on some trumped-up charge so you may as well do as little as possible. He's mad, remember.

I hope the winky eye gets gangrenous and drops off ( I can hope that because I don't have to detach detach detach) (I was going to put a wink there but thought maybe not..).

Love to all and heartfelt wishes for a prosperous 2012 in every sense: emotionally, practically, financially, spiritually

Sorry about the swish house btw. Personally, I hope it rots from under him - if it's an old house there's a good chance of all sorts of endless problems and that would be a shame.

Hi Dee, please don't worry about the house.

Because of our work we live in a country / region that is considered seriously "under developed" by UK standards. Our house is "luxurious" because we have cold running water (some of the time) and a few light bulbs and electricity /internet (some of the time as well). The only toys we can buy here are cheap, very badly made and usually unsafe.

Our work often requires us to travel to very remote areas (with our 2 dcs under 5) where there is no water other than river / rain water, no electricity, no toys etc, but you know what, the dcs absolutely love these times and don't mind at all that the places we stay have mud floors and rain coming in through the thatched roof. They spend their time splashing around in the mud with the local kids who think metal bottle tops are the most exciting toys ever.

When we ask our DD (aged 4) what the difference is between our house and the houses we visit, the only difference she can think of is that we have flowers outside our house and they don't! Nothing about us having glass windows, a proper roof, a flush toilet, mattresses on the beds etc!

What I'm trying to say is that for children the beautiful house / toys / "things" aren't as important as warm and loving relationships, having fun and adventures, and just generally feeling secure and loved and cherished by the people most important to them.

By the way, I know this all sounds very appealing... if you ever fancy a holiday..

Springy - thanks for the advice. Pretty much did the same. Applied on Thursday - he said he was going to see a school on Friday. Have no idea if he did or not as he has not mentioned anything and I cant be bothered to ask him. Yes, see your point, I guess I am dancing to his tune a bit and having to defend myself (referring him to my emails from last year where I spent ages outlining the different schools, pros and cons and visits etc - all for nothing as he was still asking me last week, what the names of the schools were!). That is the exact measure of him, he cant be bothered or forgets and I am the one who gets blamed, so back to minimal interaction. I'll keep my records and make notes and move on.....

Re house - haha! Ex has deepish pockets, so no doubt no repair is beyond him. But going to focus my energy on my own house hunt now. Ideally somewhere that DS and I can call home and settle into, but which I could rent out if the need should arise. Rent on current place is killing me (in a having to fork out that amount each month that I will never see again way and landlord was very funny about putting anything on the walls - a criteria that only came to light after we had moved in. I am not even allowed to put a nail up).

Cenicienta - thank you - that is a truly lovely and a timely reminder that home is where the heart is and one I need to remember a lot over next few weeks I think. My DS would love to be splashing out in the mud and some of our best times have been where we have been out for a random walk with no destination and just taking in the views, objects and stumbling across something fun for DS to do.

Once again, I am feeling utterly disappointed in ex (when will I ever learn!). I always seem to think that when it comes to DS, he will pick himself up and get his arse into gear, but instead, he just remains his lazy old, self-absorbed, selfish self (which is good - at least it means that he hasn't had a total transplant and there are echos of the bad side of him that I remember - hopefully new wife will get this when the honeymoon period is over with). I am in the process of seriously doing potty training with DS (after several aborted attempts in the past due to various reasons, such as dealing with all this crap in the early days, moving house, me starting work full-time, getting rid of his dummy first and DS just not being ready). Anyway, he seems very ready now, so had earmarked this weekend to start....had also mentioned this to ex, who said, yes, he would be on board with this, supportive etc. Fine. I tell him the basics (get more than one potty, toilet seat, have plenty of pants etc etc). On Thursday, I emailed him the books that I am using as he agreed to get the same and read so that we are on the same page. Again, fine and he thanks me. I crack on with potty training from yesterday. Today, he turns up for DS - I give him a basic run down of how yesterday went then ask him has he got the potties? He has just one - he didnt have time to go out and get another (I emailed him a couple of weeks ago about having an extra potty or two). But, am thinking, okay, fine, at least he has one, so not too much of an issue. I then ask, you have the book, yes? Err, no. He has not had the time to go out and buy it (but, hey, its in his Amazon cart!). I asked him why he didn't go and buy it yesterday, bearing in mind he knew he would have DS today. His response - he was too busy packing. Didn't I realise that they are moving next Friday, so they spent ALL DAY PACKING (he emphasised this as if I should feel empathy for him/them!). Errr, surely potty training on Sunday comes before moving house next Friday? He then said that he wouldn't have had time to read the book anyway (the book is as thin as a magazine and can be read in an hour skim reading for the important stuff), though funnily enough they had time to go out for a rewarding dinner yesterday evening after all their packing. I was, by this time, a bit cheesed off as he had given me the full lip-service and then done his usual, I got a bit snippy and he then ended the conversation saying that actually, I should have bought two copies of the book, one for me and one for him (he didn't ask me to and part of me is thinking, should I though? I am not his unpaid skivvy...). He also told me that potty training isn't that hard and he doesn't know what a book would tell him that he cant pick up himself (so excuse mode basically - he didn't give me all this when we were discussing the approach via email). Now, I know that having a book is not essential to potty-training, but I was keen for us to both follow the same approach at least in the early days and ex, although very good at playing with DS, isn't much good at anything else to do with other parenting issues (doesn't see the harm in giving DS the same meal every weekend he is at his his house, is happy to take DS out for day-trips to the zoo several weeks in a row as he asked to go, will buy DS whatever he wants when they are out (including toys for much older kids) etc etc). Hence why I thought by reining him with a book it would make the process a lot easier. So, a bit of a blah start to the day, but boy, did it make me remember ex for his laziness. Though silently fuming that he can bend over backwards for new wife and jump through hoops for her and yet just brushes off everything else. I feel like I still need to mother him and cajole him along (which makes me look even more like a nagging harpy whilst new wife is the soothing calm for him).

I no longer hurt for me - more that I am utterly frustrated that he just cant seem to grasp the important things in his two 'lives'. I can bet, he wont forget to book a restaurant to take new wife out for a meal after she has had a hard week of slogging into London, but he cant remember to call up a couple of schools for his DS? Ditto, I can imagine (or rather, remember) all the dashing and darting around that goes on when it comes to moving - popping out to get more boxes, more bubble wrap, grab a takeaway lunch as you are too pooped to fix something and yet, he couldn't be bothered to factor in 30mins-1 hour to pop into the nearest bookshop and get a book on potty training. It just blows me away - and yes, makes me mad that he can be so out of tune with everything else aside from what is going on in his own little bubble kingdom.

Anyway, will see how things go I guess....but from now on, I will not expect anything from ex in regard to DS (bar being able to play with him when he needs to).

By the way, should add, ex was in no way apologetic as he started out with the 'one potty, no book' line. He was defensive from the get-go, which of course riled me up.....

And, he is moving next Friday and yet is asking to have DS next Saturday (as opposed to Sunday)?! How would that work with potty training (bearing in mind, DS will be at nursery from M-F, so next time for either me or ex to sustained training at home will be next Sat?! Surely he wont have time to be following a pre-schooler around a house that he would have moved into the day before? Or will DS just adapt?). The mean part of me is thinking, 'yep, have DS on Sat' and let them see how they get on (isn't moving stressful as it is without a pre-schooler who is just starting potty training? Dont think I would do it if I was moving - ex only told me about his new house last Thursday and I had already spent the last week or so prepping DS about getting rid of nappies etc), the practical, mummy side of me is thinking 'well, it would be better for DS to be in at least one familiar environment to continue the process', but ex will be an arse on this - can guarantee it......