Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair and left us - WE ARE MOVING ON!)

[Dee34]

Hopefully, I have done this correctly?!

Old thread here Thread1

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Well, baby is defo here - DS announced that he had a baby brother who had come from the hospital....not sure how I feel with the news and the actuality of it all. TBH, at the moment, I think my main gripe will be getting used to DS possibly talking about him a lot - partyly because this will be someone that I dont know and never will know and also, that ex has had another baby. But, has to be said, as when the issue came up of ex having DS for weekend/overnights with himself and then OW, it was - as indicated by wise posters on here - more the idea and build up of the event that was gut-churning. I did imagine that the first time DS mentioned his baby sibling I would collapse in tears, but nothing remotely, which is weird given that we were trying for #2 and just started out on fertility treatment when he met his soulmate and left us. Dolly - I think, for me, its more than I just feel flat right now. No emotion left for ex - could be part of the forgivness thing? Dont know! I do know that depsite having wonderful DS, there is no way I would want to be in new wife's shoes having a child with ex. She is more than welcome to her hard-won prize (ex that is) and the fairytale lifestyle he has no doubt promised her.....I don't want to be involved in any drama or anything to do with their lives. I strongly suspect that ex will take this (assuming he picks up on this) as a sign that 'hey, we can be friends again!'....it's most certainly not. It's a sign that I would rather spend my evenings worrying whether that Laura Ashley star print wallpaper is a tad too indulgent for DS' bedroom than get locked into an email battle with a knob. Totally change for me as I was always drawn into these debates and contact with him, but I can see a pattern so know what to avoid (I do radio silence for a bit and then ex comes along and either does something or emails something that he knows breaks an agreement or will wind me up and so I retailiate and we engage again....I doubt he even knows he is doing it most of the time, but demands are just off the wall. I can finally see why everyone was telling me to ignore him completely and to not reply to any texts/emails/contact unless absolutley necessary ).

Dolly - I do have odd moments of pondering, but less and less these days (and mostly about possible new future as opposed to ex and our life together). Don't be hard on yourself though Dol, I had the good luck (as it turned out to be) to have old family home sell, so we left there in Oct last year and even with nightmare ex landlord, the rental was a bridging gap and I don't have any ties/reminders about ex, bar, literally, DS. All our old artwork from those dull holidays I dragged him on (yeah, right) are in the garage and I will most likely car boot or donate to a charity shop. Ex doesn't want them (though a few months ago he did want copies of every single one of our old photos before DS - including me and him together - said no, if he was that bothered/keen for them, he should have made copies before leaving, besides, really cant be arsed to dig them out). I can only imagine that being in the house which you shared with your ex, bought with your ex and shared happy memories with your ex will always jar a bit. It certainly did for me....though know people that have stayed in the old family home and completely changed/overhauled it. Is there any legal recourse regarding the mortgage? Can he just stop paying it like that? Shocking......he does realise that that is the roof over his son's head (for the majority of the time)? Utter, utter madness....

Love, love, love the idea of the ballons! Might pinch that one (though alas, no lighthouses for me to clamber round these parts). Good luck with that (and enjoy washing down that ham bag with the champers - much, much deserved and very poignant). Let us know how you get on.

Well - no serenity here! And honestly, when I was at your stage in this long and messy journey, the idea of forgiveness was utterly laughable. I still dont want to be friends with ex (as would like to think people who are my friends behave a teeny bit nicer) and I wont be welcoming him to my home or going out on family days with him or being all cosy and familar on the phone/during handover. Nope, all I want is for him to be as good a dad as he can possibly be to DS and go about the rest of his business in his own life without involving me. As mentioned, I fully expect that things will be reared to challenge this at times (e.g. can imagine in a few years time....Dee34, you are being so unreasonable by not wanting to do joint holidays/playdates/birthdays etc). I think the first step in this forgiveness malarkey is self care, so for me, self care means leading my own life independently of ex and his new life - sure there will be overlaps I imagine, but for the most part, I wont be involved with them. But as said, this is what 18 months-ish down the line for me......This time last year I was seeting with anger and rage that some woman from SF who ex had spent no more than 30-odd days with over a period of 8 months was now going to be seeing my DS and interacting with him as a stepmum. I still cant stand what ex did and the choices he made at the time and since then, but, those choices are out of my hand and control. All I can control is my reaction to them I guess (as Patience and all kept reminding me last year and this)....Finally all clicking together I guess......

Planet - thanks! Slowly settling in (can't believe how much stuff I have! Need to cut the crap out of my posessions now). I too hope that ex is too busy with his new baby to give me grief, though I guess he could swing the opposite way as in 'ohhh, shiny new family - check, more time with DS1 - lets go and bug Dee34 for that after all, DS1 is fully entitled to spend more time here now as he has a brother here'......in fact, knowing ex as I do or did, can lay money on this as he is so self absorbed and well, self entitled....he wouldn't be doing it for anyone's sake other than his own). But, wont get stressed about it.....

Well - you have hit the nail on the head.....and that is exactly what my counsellor said about parenting. Defo a good tip to work towards in cases where there is aggro with ex partners. Take care.

Dx

I'm sorry to hear about your horrid month Dolly. It is insult on top of injury to have to deal with financial decimation on top of emotional. I must ask - do you often find that the more measured and reasonable you are with your ex, the more frothingly mental he seems to become? I cannot understand the level of anger coming from my ex (although he'd never admit to it). Last text he sent me called me a stupid twat and told me I was thick. It's a strong word to use but I feel so utterly violated by it. This is the man I trusted completely with everything.

(Of course he is being an utter shit about the finances too, no surprises there given his conduct over the last year and the script they all seem to follow in these circumstances. I'm still cacking myself though - once my saving run out I don't know what the hell the children and I are going to live on, or where. Can't stay at my parents indefinitely).

I love your lighthouse plans. If I could afford a ticket to Oz I would so be there with you necking the champagne. Oh the larks we'd have!

Dee, I so admire you for the way you are dealing with your recent news. I am still at the seething anger stage. Can't even stay in the same room when ds is on the phone to ex and I know his ow is there in the background. It really upsets me. Everyone keeps telling me I have to move on. But I don't know how to, I really don't know how to. I can't imagine ever feeling any kind of peace again.

Oh, and also, get the star print wallpaper! I very nearly almost got the star print bed throw - 'tis lovely! xxx

Dee (another vote for the wallpaper here). It must be a weird time for you. I get a bit bah humbug when my DS comes back talking about his quasi step brother (who he calls his brother) so I can imagine how you feel. I try and focus on the fact that it is nice for DS to have a form of sibling but galling given, like you, we were into the fertility treatments. As you say it is more the unknown but I hope you are going OK.

Well, you are really in the middle of things but you will get through it and you will find the right financial path for you. I recall that you are a solicitor by training and I am sure with that background you will be able to find something, when you are ready, that may fit in with family life. It is hard though my love. And yes, its amazing how angry they get - my former seems to be mad whether or not I am calm or not. Although currently he is fizzing and I am being calm. I have to think it is his problem and not mine. I also have to think that given he is off living his dream there is an awful lot of anger there still. I genuinely think that just as he made up his narrative that I was hideous bitch wife who had made his life hell, he is now making up the vengeful vindictive wife. I think both are to avoid personal responsibility for the mess he has got himself into. I think the current one is financial (hence the non payment of mortgage - he was always rubbish at not spending more than he earns and doing the grand gesture - luxury month long holiday to NY/Hawaii anyone? - but it I keep repeating that it is not my problem anymore and have to focus on me and DS.

In terms of legal redress - I am waiting to see if I can take-over loan - it has been approved but waiting for paperwork to read through (as I say horrible terms as I am self employed and they have you over a barrel as I don't have provable income as just started really) - then am going to address. If I can't / don't I will for sure, if I do then I hope he will pay me what he owes to get rid of the mortgage. He is also due to get v. expensive (relatively) painting, sideboard and mirror so can always hold them to ransom if not (although of course second hand value not huge)....still if I stay in the house they do look nice and will save me filling the gaps!

Will keep you updated - until then KISSES to all xxxx

Well I also meant to add that please don't feel bad or pressure to 'move on'. In my experience you need to feel what you feel until one day you begin to feel something different and so forth. I know that I felt under incredible pressure to 'move on' and still do to some degree. I think it is hard for those who haven't walked through the same fire to truly undersand what it is like to be frozen in time trying to make sense of thing - and at the same time having to make life and financial decisions at exactly the worst time emotionally to do so. It is well meaning but often borne of being uncomfortable around grief and the hope to see you happy again, unrealistic as this may be at this time. Give yourself a break my love xxx

Dolly - did you do the lighthouse/balloons? If so, how did it go?

So mini-dilema to mull over before bed.....DS has an event tomorrow that is open to parents. Ex knows about it as he gets comms from nursery direct (I also reminded him in DS' book), but, I suspect that he has forgotten with everything else going on (unless he wrote it down....). I am loathe to remind him about it as feel a bit like 'why should I?', esp as this weeks thing has been that he expects me to email him every time he is doing a pick-up from nursery to outline what jacket/jumper/shoes DS has on that day as he is constantly forgetting things behind. Apparently this is a sensible idea as opposed to him asking DS what jumper/jacket he has on today or asking nursery staff (and we are talking about clothing items he has seen/is aware of, as I make a point of letting him know that DS has a new pair of shoes or a new jacket with such and such design on it if he has never seen it before). It just smacks of such entitlement and puts the responsibility on me, whilst he can go off living in his dream world and not remembering stuff.....

Anyway, back to tomorrow....on the one hand I do feel like 'nope - he should remember these things or get tools in place to help him remember, like a diary (suggested that, don't think he has one, as I still get the odd comms as a reminder about swimming lesson times)', but then, on the other hand, do I just remind him for DS' sake? If he has just forgotten and I don't remind him (and he would have been free to come), can imagine the volleys to be lobbed my way about not doing whats right for DS etc....

What do others do/have done in similar situations?

• Of course, he may well have remembered and could surprise me tomorrow by just rolling up (event is on my weekend, but I have no issues with him being there and can be civil to him as long as he doesn't give it the whole OTT 'happy chums' thing for public consumption)....

** I could remind him and he could have other plans (with new baby here) - so not sure how I would feel about that in terms of DS.....

Its up to him Dee to organise himself,not your fault if he forgets,different if you were witholding info .
His responsibility.

I echo what Dolly says "Well" you move on when you are ready.Everyone is unique.You have absolutely NOTHING TO PROVE !!!You are looking after your kids and keeping them safe everyday .My ex was also"frothing mental angry "in communications,I think it came from him losing control of me and ultimately his life going down the toilet . keep yourself away from it as best as you can.If you dont have to communicate then dont.Tis just business now ,but keep a record of any abusive texts.I found this bit the hardest to comprehend because obviously for 16yrs of my life he was my best friend and i felt great and in the end I was "Just a f$$$ing c&&&" so I really am envious of anyone that gets maintenance and a civilised ex partner to deal with because mine did a proper job on me ,crippled financially at the moment but hey ho,
....only thing i can do now is earn more money and raise the kids as best as I can .

So glad you are settling in to your new home Dee !

Ballooons sound fab Dolly !

Hi Dee. I certainly agree it is his responsibility but I guess its up to you to decide if your ex's presence would significantly enhance the event to DS as to whether you send him a reminder text this morning? It is so hard having to be the 'big' person isn't it.

Had similar but different (in that it is Father's Day - so only ex) thing with DS's kindy activity for September. Sent ex yonks ago reminder email to put in diary or would ask his Dad to go. WEEKS later get a yes I will go and it makes sense for me to take him home and drop him back at kindy next morning. I replied saying great you can go but without being contrary it makes sense to drop him home TWO mins up road rather than add to a late night (pizza and puzzle night till 7.30pm) then drive 45 mins to his parents then drive him 45 mins back before 9am next morning. Cue WW2. Wish I hadn't bothered to remind him TBH but didn't want DS to be only one without Dad there......

.....Good luck if he does go or doesn't go - either way not the most comfortable.

Balloons on Tuesday! May feel a bit of a tit, not sure, but kind of looking forward to it as do want to try and draw line in sand...we shall see and will report back!

Patience. SO sorry for your financial situation. I have difficult ex but at least he more or less does pay. It must be very hard doing it entirely solo financially. I regularly fantasise about what I would do if I won lottery/founded successful business and #1 fantasy is setting up a grant awarding charity to single parents who are struggling. You would be no 1 on list if I ever get there

Huge love lovely ladies xxx

I understand your opinion Dolly ,i guess my kids are often the only ones without their dad there at a school event ,football etc.I just broke myself in half trying to get him to see the kids and when I stopped doing that and making him do it for himself he just slithered off .I had to take myself out of the equation to save my sanity and to stop it becoming an opportunity for emotional abuse .I tried my best to encourage him to see the kids but in the end that is NOT my responsibility.Would he still be in the kids life if i had continued to allow him to abuse me ?to be honest i think definately yes.Do i feel guilty and full off blame for the kids not seeing their father ?most definately yes .After we had been seperated 18mths I knew he wouldnt make the effort.But i also know that his relstionship with the kids is his business not mine .
Re money ,i just guess i have never been in this situation before and i feel really ashamed,i was always responsible with money and lived a modest life ,no debt etc .I am doing voluntary work to gain experience and hope to gain employment soon .Sure its always darkest before the dawn.

I agree with the others.

You are not now your ex's secretary/second mother/cleaner/cook. He sacked you from that job and employed someone else.

If they are named it is easy to look for one. If he can't be bothered it will sit there until you pick it up. This what it really comes down to he can't be bothered, he is too important, someone else (guess who) is less important and can do it for him.

If he gets all the notifications from the nursery he can arrange it all himself.

Do not fall into the pattern of doing it for him again for DS. If he really wants to do something he will remember and do it.

If he doesn't that is not your fault and you can give your DS extra hugs.

You sound so much better now

ps i know there are plenty in the same boat as me or worse just have a real fear of me not getting out of this at the moment and the guilt of letting your kids down financially is immense so just had to dump it out .

Dee I think you need to think first and foremost about being the best mum you possibly can for DS. It is not your job to make ex the best dad!

If ex has already received the comms from nursery, that should be enough. The rest is his responsibility.

You will feel bad for DS if he doesn't turn up. You will have times when you wonder if he loves DS2 more than your DS.

But you can't live the rest of your life trying to protect DS from his dad's irresponsibility. You CAN make sure though that he has at least 1 parent who will always be there for him.

And if ex does forget, don't get into any kind of exchange with him.

Anyway, sounds like you're doing great. Congratulations on the new house!

Thanks for all the wise words....as an update, in the end, I decided not to remind him - well, I arrived at the event and thought (as I saw lots of other dads there) maybe I will drop him a quick email, but, got distracted by catching up with others and keeping an eye on DS who was having loads of fun....it was literally a case of completely forgetting my phone until around 2 hours later on way to supermarket......which is when I got the email from ex asking how the event was?! So he did remember by himself (so wrong of me to cast aspersions on him in that regard). Oh and then another email 5 mins later asking if he can come round and drop something off. I again got distracted as we were meeting friends and then at another event. Best thing was that I resisted the old Dee34 reaction of sending an angry email back chastising him for his absence and just let it go. He wasn't there for whatever reason that has nothing to do with me (and I don't think DS noticed tbh). He can remember certain things - so again, serves as a good reminder (as rightly pointed out by lovely posts above) that I do not have to act as ex's PA anymore. Yes, would have been weird if he had turned up (esp with new family in tow - forgiveness is a WIP, but I don't ever see myself hanging out and cutting loose with ex's new family).

Xales - agree on the clothes point. I think he is just plain lazy and does think someone else will take responsibility. Case in point is the shoes he bought for DS, if they come back to mine, I always return as soon as possible (via nursery drop offs/pick ups) and have even made notes in DS book and sometimes the shoes are still there for another week. I then feel obliged to remind him again as feel the onus is on me if they go missing (yeah, have knocked that on the head now). Thanks as always for the sound advice.

Patience - ditto, sorry to hear about finances. You are always so positive and have inspired me on the road to forgiving and letting go. Really hoping things get back on track for you here. Huge hugs.

Cenicenta - what you and Xales have written is exactly what my counsellor said. I can't parent ex to be a parent to DS (if that makes sense) or suggest/encourage him on certain parenting points (as would parters do say). Have mostly let that go now (I think). I do feel a lot better, which is strange (and as said, that may all change/go a bit wobbly as/when or if ever I bump into ex and new family). I remember how last year I was so mad keen for ex to come begging back just so I could tell him where to go (and maybe just a little bit of pride/wondering what if etc). But now? I sincerely hope he doesn't as wouldn't want the drama in my life and tbh, couldn't even be bothered to issue said kicking**. It's just like 'meh' at the moment...thanks!

Dolly/Well - hope you are both well and bearing up.

Dx

PS: went for the star wallpaper as on sale....just need to save pennies for the decorator now...

* All metaphorical - I am a non violent person - honest! Though, as per Dolly* am sure ex has got me tarnished as some domineering tyrant who made every day of our 11 years together a living nightmare. Oh well!

I think you have your answer there Dee - he's an arse, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop him from being an arse.

I remember Patience once saying that once she had accepted she would be raising her children alone with no financial or real emotional input from her ex then she turned a corner in terms of dealing with him. I feel a little like that with ex and have let go to some degree. There is no co-parenting, and there never will be (I realised this after mediation in april). He is too frothingly mental and we do not have the same values and goals (ie the best interests of the children). He will be a father, but only on his terms. Jury's still out on the financial input but it sure isn't coming without a fight.

Hope all goes well with the balloon releaseage dolly! Any news on the loan? I hope you get it sorted soon - it will be a massive relief for you.

I am trundling along but still in a pit. Still feel sick every time I check my email in case there's one from my solicitor. This too shall pass. Had a nice day at the beach with the children today. Really got the bit between my teeth with the sandcastle building. Quite an underrated activity in my opinion. Dug a huge hole and turned it into a car. Really works the biceps! I am getting quite used to it being just us 3 on our days out, and not that there is a gaping hole there where another person should be, or other friends with us (all of my good friends are dotted around the country). It's just us, and that's good. We have each other. (tries not to think about when they will grow up and leave me and I will turn into one of those MILs and become quite mad(der) and desperate(r)).

Well done Dee. Your DS will turn out great, regardless of his df just because he has such a balanced, together mum who has been through the absolute worst, come through it, dusted herself down and now has her head held high.

That example in itself will counteract all the rubbish that will inevitably come from his df in the future.

Just wondering how you are doing ladies? I hope the silence means you are all well xx

At the risk of babbling away to myself, the kids have just been collected by the ex for a holiday with him. They will be visiting his country with him for the first time since we left last summer. I hope he fricking well brings them back. Gibber. Have all the belts and braces protection in place (eg court order stating that the kids place of habitual residence is england) but would none the less have to go through hague convention proceedings if he did keep them. I don't think he wants to keep them there to be honest. I don't think he's got space in his life for two full time kids, and i can't imagine his girlfriend would be thrilled. But still, you know, gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber.

I hope you are all well. How is everything going?

Hi Well

Gosh first holiday away is always a bit hard to deal with particularly given they are in his home country but from what you have written it sounds like you have the bases covered and that he isn't in the market to be a full time Dad but i can imagine your trepidation. I hope you are able to do some nice things for you when they are away and not too down. HUGE kisses. I remember when my DS spent his first holiday (5 days) with his Dad (after 18 months as he didn't bother asking before then ; ( and was hard but arranged a nice long w/end in the city to take my mind of it.

All rumbling, bumbling along here. Not a great time of it to be honest as trying to finalise arrangements for taking over the house, the enormity of debt which freaks me out and nothing straight forward as have to amend our original financial agreement in order to transfer house to me and not pay stamp duty (we were both on title) so lawyers and surrounding mini-drama re ex's non payment of mortgage to sort - always fun. I have also been making a very conscious effort to be entirely straight forward in all comms and actually try and make our relatonship with each other re our son better but its all been thrown back in my face so feeling both a bit foolish and frankly over it as I get unpleasant ond or monosyllabic comms back. They are all necessary comms re our son (not needless ones) so finally realising there is no real point in trying. Work picking up a bit but quite stressful trying to combine with single parenting so generally feeling a bit frazzled and over it all.

Anyway, onwards and upwards to all of us and hope everyone else is doing well.

Kisses Dolly

Yep. To be honest girls I've really been struggling to cope lately. Been taking it out on my parents (the last people I should be, given they're giving us a roof over our heads). I am so stressed out about finances (ex proffering nothing in terms of maintenance and threatening to let bank repossess marital home unless I agree to x, y, z (all unfavourable terms to me)), and the future for me and the children, and their first trip out of the UK and without me etc etc. I'm ashamed of myself though. I can't seem to get it together. I have no mo-jo and can't see anything in the future. Like a ship lost in a storm.

I feel your pain Dolly - it's such a long, drawn out, painful process trying to sort out the finances. I've also experienced attempts to make things less acrimonious for the benefit of the children being thrown back in your face. I think it really is a case of accepting that there is and will be no co-parenting relationship. Good that work is picking up (good on many levels too I think), even though I can imagine the frazzlement. I hope you are managing to get some time for yourself though.

I hope everyone else is doing ok. Kisses to all xxx

I seem to have lost track of this thread!

hello lovely brave women

WHAT IS HIS PROBLEM?

Gosh - its been a while.....things have been ticking along here, with lots on at work and bar the way-out-there request for more access for DS a week before his new baby was due, there has been minimal contact with ex....until now. Ex knows that I am on holiday with DS (we are in the UK) and yet chooses now to debate the holiday dates (he has known for at least 7 months as we were originally planning on going abroad). Holiday dates were written down in DS' book and we have exchanged emails on this and now there is a problem? The problem is that I am eating into his access time with DS (despite the fact that if he booked a holiday week with DS, I too would miss my usual weekday access). This has already occurred in the past with both parties going on holiday for a week no problem and now all hell has broken loose?? Really weird...

Along with that, he now decides to reiterate how HE is missing DS and cant bear to go one week without seeing him (he sees him every Weds overnight, every other weekend (from Friday night) and every other Monday night overnight). He (ex) cant handle it, so I now need to roll over and do as he says. If DS was really unsettled or upset or giving off signs that he was madly missing ex then fair enough, we have something to start to talk about. But this is all from ex's view. DS is fine given all that he has gone through down to ex's choices either directly or in-directly (lived in 5 different houses in the last 18 months, in nursery full-time over two nurseries, Dad's new instant relationship and then arrival of new sibling). He also has a lot more to get adjusted to as he will be off to school in Sept and starting in a new care/after school club setting...To add to this, I can count on one hand the number of times ex has taken DS out of nursery for the day (bar the one weeks holiday he took him earlier this year). His request/demand for more access was made yesterday via email when he knows that I am on leave and doing stuff with DS (I only opened his email in the first place as it had DS' name in the title - that and that alone). Again, being a cynic, I question whether he did this intentionally (we are away - albeit day trips and time at home - and ex obviously has too much time on his hands/is that mean). I have never and would never take the time to email him to demand x or y when I know he is with DS on holiday....it just beggars belief.

Unfortunately, I was a bit narked so emailed back to remind him about the fact that holidays have been known for months (he chose not to respond to my comms until now) and to ask him to stop with the access demands. And so he fought back telling me that actually DS says that he wants to live with ex?!!!??? That DS is upset when he knows that I am picking him up from nursery? Completely low I know - there have been umpteen times I have had to literally peel a crying, howling DS from me to hand over to his Dad, then there are the times he says that he doesnt want to go to his Dad's house etc etc. I would never dream of flinging this in ex's face, especially not to support say my reasoning that DS shouldn't go to his Dads. DS is 3 - he lives in the moment. If he is at his Dads and having a good time, then sure he will say 'awwwhhh' when its home time, same as he does here.....arrrggghh!! Think I just let him get under my skin - though hopefully not too deep. Each time he delivers a blow or nonsense like this, I get to make one step further away from him/us and can sit back and wonder what I ever saw in him (and whether he was this much of an idiot, but I just couldn't see it...). I half expect him to know come back in a few months time with yet the same demand and this time throw in that he is now able to offer DS a fuller family life now that he has a baby brother at ex's house (or that DS really wants to spend more time with ex and his brother).

And there was I thinking that with a new baby he would be a bit pre-occupied and so have less time to be annoying.....(how does that Gabrielle song go again?!).

Honestly, I just feel like yelling to him 'Dude, I am trying really hard to forgive you for what you did so we can all move on (not to be friends though!), so cut the crap', but know that would either have a temporary or zero impact. What the hell would he do if Ms SF upped and left back for the US (assuming she would ever break her agreement to never leave the UK and to stay wherever we stay - great!). Anyway, and BREATHE.......

*I now sincerely believe that he is some sort of narcissist as opposed to just being really self-absorbed, lacking in emotional intelligence and a bit of a knob.....I also know now why so many people implored me to run for the hills months ago and issued the warning of the 'happy family' in the making .

Dx

Springy - hope the splinter was removed okay and without a hitch/much pain! Yes, would second the Melanie Tonia Evens website that you mentioned a while back.

Well - agree with Springy and Dolly regarding the first holiday. Hope you got through it okay? And the DCs? Will need to pick your brains/experience if ex ever gets around to taking DS to the US (though way he is acting now, I am loathe to agree to this as America is a big place to get lost in if you wanted to if you see what I mean). Hopefully they will stick to their other big rule/agreement of going back to the US every Thanksgiving (thank goodness that is in term-time and DS starts school), so one less battle (have no problem with them going on holiday, but the US connection is a bit.....unknown at the moment). How are you doing otherwise? Sorry to hear about the bit of a slump/no mo-jo. Gets to us all and I still have recurring bouts (though very infrequent and more about the effect of circumstances as opposed to the characters/circumstances themselves. Hope you are doing well...

Dolly - sorry to hear about the finance issue and stress (though good to hear about the pick up in work and taking on the house, though know its a steep climb - hugs). Ditto, cant believe the grief you are still getting in comms (actually, I can believe it).....Keep staying positive and let us know how you are doing!

Take care lovely ladies,
Dx

We had the access times carved in stone drawn up (legally) a year in advance, so we knew exactly the times each had. NOne of this chopping and changing. Sometimes there would be a miniscule tweak but all-in-all it was rigidly stuck to. I hate to hear how ex is constantly mucking you about, using ds (note: using ) to make trouble. He doesn't care about ds Dee.

Here is the link for Melanie Tonya Evans' site if anyone is interested. I do rate her, she does some very good work - astonishing, actually. Bit new-agey sometimes ie she talks about 'energies' here and there but, hey, it's good to have someone so knowledgeable and experienced from all sides ie working with victims (as she was herself at one point) as well as working with perpetrators ie narcissists. She is very, very good.

Re you expecting ex to be preoccupied with new family, Dee - I thought this when ex remarried. I verily skipped down the street, thinking he'd at last loosen his grip. NO SUCH THING! He was worse than ever - it all moved up a significant gear as he strove to build his empire .

I've just had a narcissist staying here - a foreign student. It was so interesting to watch the whole train crash pan out, the way he did things, the way he manipulated everything, the stages. I kind of got the whole shebang condensed into a month so I saw each stage with clarity. But I wasn't invested in him personally iyswim, so I could stand back, one step removed, and watch it all...

What it did bring home to me was how devastatingly alluring they are when the charm is turned on full blast, how seamlessly authentic - and how very, very hard it is when that is switched off at the flick of a switch.... (and I didn't even love him or was committed to him in any way, or him to me...). I am feeling marginally bruised by the experience - I don't think you can be in the orbit of a narcissist and not be bruised, even if it's minimal, as in this case - but the experience was so valuable.

They really do all conform to a script. In the first stages - when he was full-blast into me - you'd think we were separated at birth, the similarities were so striking.... by the end he had morphed into the personality of another student at his school and it was as if I had never existed. At one point he crashed into me in the kitchen - accidentally, I assume - and barely noticed it, though he's a big bloke and I'm small. It was as if I didn't exist. Apart from the hate, that is. A malevolent hatred beamed at me, a snarling disgust. Though even that wasn't enough - also, a kind of plan to shaft me somehow, to 'make me pay' (for what??!?)

oh gosh one does sound nutty when one talks about naricissists, or being chewed up by a narcissist.

oh! and within those 4 weeks he was also making 'my replacement' 'pay' - by using me. Meanwhile I was moreorless a bystander having this passion play beamed on to my exterior, like they do on Buck House when there's a big do on.