Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair and left us - WE ARE MOVING ON!)

[Dee34]

Hopefully, I have done this correctly?!

Old thread here Thread1

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
I
Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Hello!

Sorry for being absent of late - lots going on here (main of which is that my landlord has decided to put the house on the market, so have been running around like a mad person trying to find somewhere to live! Quite stressy, but getting there and know that overall, even with that looming over us, we are in a better position than most, so wont complain too much). Have found somewhere now, so its another kind of stress and panic to get paperwork sorted and everything in place and pray it doesn't fall through).

Life is not too bad at the moment. Nothing spectacular has happened - just basking in the luxury of not having to interact with my ex anymore. At the moment, the pregnancy and upcoming arrival of their new baby (no idea when and not particularly interested, though am sure DS will fill me in on the news as and when!) has been the ideal kicker to getting total detachment from him. Him and his life are nothing to do with me, and I am now living that - and enjoying it to a certain degree even! I expect I will come undone a bit as and when the baby is here in as much it was my desire to have another child, I was TTC a baby with ex when this all kicked off, and I so wanted DS to have a sibling from me, but hey ho and will have to deal with those emotions as and when they arise....But ultimately, I now longer have to fill in as some sort of unpaid counsellor for my ex listening to his regrets and wishes to re-do the last x months/year and turn back time and then seeing him trundle back to wifey all unburdened and refreshed. Gosh, was such a muppet back 'then' (a few months ago!). Our contact is solely about DS and primarily via a notebook - no interest in hearing his sob stories/regrets, not even as a voyeur.....Hopefully life will continue to move from strength to strength. But, I would like to say to anyone going through the same, the cracking expert-like advice I have had here has been spot-on. There will come a time when all the little things that your ex is doing to wind you up/get a reaction - any reaction - from you, will soon fade and they wont bother you and you WILL just bat them away. Not to say that they wont be bothersome or annoying, but I have found as the detachment has grown, so has ex's ability to irk me significantly. He still does the most insane/stupid things but I cant be bothered with the man anymore and keeping the distance has broken any shackles or reserves of the old ex I held in my back pocket (in my book at least - latest being that he decided that he cant hack dropping DS back off at my house once every two weeks as the 10-15min journey each way is grinding him down and hey, I should go to his house and pick our DS up and he will be kind enough to come down to my car so I don't have to knock on their door. Can probably guess what my response was, esp as DS' nursery is further away still from his and yet he can do that journey several times a week. Power struggle per-chance?).

But enough about me......

Parsley - sorry to hear about your situation and that you are joining us. As mentioned, advice on here and other threads have been a complete lifesaver for me. I don't know where I would be today without the help of some wonderful MNs who took the time to help and for which I am eternally grateful.... I ordered the Freedom Programme book as there were no classes planned in my area (or the classes may have been held in the daytime - cant remember which now, but I defo couldn't make a class for some reason). I read the study guide and the completed the workbook by myself. Even that was very illuminating, though as Springy and others have said, doing the physical course can be of huge benefit. Again, sorry to hear about the house situation - I know it can seem like a huge hole to climb out of, but you'll get there, at your own pace.....

Dx

Hi Dee, glad to hear you're ok. Seems like I kinda hijacked for a bit...sorry about that. Yes, lots of these things are power struggles methinks. Or 'willy-waving', as I like to think of it.
The latest is, STBXH wants to photograph the walls in the house 'he has helped build' presumbably to show the tremendous value he has added to the house (not). I think this indicates he is going after me financially, but at the moment, I just want to be free... I will never be well off, but I can have the peace of mind of not living with someone who abuses me.

Dolly - glad to hear that work is picking up, hope it continues. Any more movement with the house? Good for you sticking it to your ex about his diving gear. Honestly, I shouldn't be amazed at hearing/reading how some men can act (esp when it is so out of character from their previous incarnation as married/family men), but I am....And congrats on getting through the extended time whilst your DS was away (dating and a city break sound like a welcome distraction).

Well - sorry that you have been going through the mill with your ex. Why is he so insistent about a meeting with the new gf if he is not even in the same country? Sounds bizarre. I hope he works with you on this and thinks about what is right for your DCs (in my case, my ex introduced our DS to his then gf a couple of days after she arrived in the UK, so I cant offer any advice). As with Dolly, sorry that your ex is being very difficult with regard to maintenance and the children. You are doing so well - keep going and definitely keep 'ranting', I think it is good for the soul. You will get to that place where all those feelings will fade and it is perfectly natural (if not expected?) to mourn that lost future and take time to move on. The ex's had the luxury of forward planning and convincing themselves that you/me/Dolly/everyone-in-our-position must have known that this was on the cards and that they were so unhappy. The fact that we are/were so unprepared for it all makes it an even bigger hurdle to overcome I have found....but you'll get there.

Springy/Patience/Everyone - love and thanks as always.

Detachment ROCKS!!! Big hugs Dee U R a star x

I am glad to hear you are well and thriving Dee. It is very inspriational.

Well, I know who 'the girlfriend' is now and it is who I suspected. I was not happy with their level of 'friendship' when we were still very much married and voiced it to him at the time. She was clearly being lined up whilst I (unbeknownst to me) was being phased out.

I am so angry.

All the hallmarks were there - sudden detachment, overnight change in personality. It's the same old fucking script.

I didn't deserve this, much less my children. How dare he try and screw us financially too through the divorce.

I am very close to texting him that she deserves a lying cheating scumbag like him. Shall I? Tell me what to do. I am beyond thinking.

As much as you want to do this please don't.
Maintain your dignity and keep silent
You will regret it in the longrun if you do

Thank you for delurking Doha. I suspected someone might say that. I have such a strong urge though, just to text something like "I'm glad I'm not you" (ie a lying cheating scumbag) but I know the reality is that it won't matter a jot to him, or her, and I'll just give him more ammunition to paint me as the psycho ex and, see, that's why he had to cheat on leave me etc etc.

She does deserve him though. She must also be very thick or have an ego the size of jupiter. Or both. If he's done that to his wife and two small children does she really think he's a great bet as a partner?

you should have been texting the OW --- thank you for taking the lying cheating scumbag off my hands, he is no longer my problem and you are welcome to him.

BUT DON'T you know they will laugh at you and as you say paint you as a psycho, you are SO MUCH Better than that.

count to 10- punch a pillow, then breathe

x

Well. There are lot's of views on what to do/not to do in these circumstances. I'm not sure if you were part of the thread way back but I did end up emailing the OW. I dont' know if it was the right thing and I'm not sure I would 'recommend' it. I composed an email (no 'bad' words, not that emotional) and sat on it for two days. When entirely sober (in all ways) I sent it. I don't think it helped but I wanted her to know what she had done (yes I know my ex was primarily responsible - not her - and he got some missives too very very early on the piece). And if I'm honest it was a bit mischievious as I alluded to when she dumped him and he indicated we should try again - childish I know but I'm not perfect. However, broadly speaking, I think Doha is right. You are in the middle of financial dealings, you need to keep a clear head and play the long game. You don't want any 'written' evidence of you being anything that could be construed as unreasonable and frankly, and very very unfortunately darling, he will use it against you as proof he took the right decision as you are so very unreasonable. Its not fair but that is the way it is.

That said, I dont' take my own advice. I have just had first screaming match with ex in many months. Net net the housing market is shit here. He had indicated that he would be willing to stay on mortage for 2 years until I could sell or take over mortgage (by getting good job rather than consulting which is hard to get mortgage when self employed)...had lined it all up...today. No. he wants off. He is invoking clause in agreement (made when market was much better) and will be getting independent valuer in (they always value low as mortgage valuers) and will force sale of home at very low level (the only money I get from marriage is the money from house as bought it in first place)....will loose a conservative $250K and whilst not left in poverty per se will be fairly fucked. A nice turn of events and a match to the bonfire of our son's financial security, all so he can set up house with OW and her son sooner rather than later. Oh and a nice salvo about me being an irresponsible mother as I have to spend the child support he gives on my half of the mortgage on his dream house (which he wanted I didn't and now wont' sell for no-ones fault) and so am not doing the best for our son (as oppose to him who lives in another city, left him when he was 2 and spends every other weekends watching videos and playing iphone games with him). It is almost funny.

Kisses
Sue x

ie i would pay all the mortgage - he would have no financial resp but have to stay on papers

That stinks Dolly...can you take advice on his about turn? Maybe you've done that already...
Well others are right I think. I have had the odd rant at STBXH, but I do try not to...He was online dating, trying to line someone up while he still had home comforts presumably. He has given me a new address (Averaging one amonth for the last six months) and it would appear that there is a woman he is 'friendly' with. I think he's taken his stuff there, but haven't asked him. She suspiciously turned up when he took dd out last week, just Happened to be in the same Burger King apparently, despite it being a good 30/40 mins from where she lives. Don't care very much, sad that he is able to move on so quickly, but hardly a suprise as he was online dating anyhoo...

Just a quick one to say hi. I am still alive but have eyes like pissholes in the snow (again). When is it going to ease? I can't cope with the injustice of it, with him telling your son all about what a 'nice kind lady' his girlfriend is when she knew he was married and was a father of two very young children when she met him. He will deny that anything 'happened' when we were 'together' but the boundaries of this are conveniently blurred for him. There is no question whatsoever that there was an inappropriate relationship whilst we were still together.

I hate them both and I feel so powerless. Nothing I do or don't do makes a difference. I am living in abject misery and I don't know how to get out of it. I feel completely violated and brutalised and have to continue to interact with the man who perpetrated it because of the children.

Btw Dolly - the book you referred to upthread - Runaway Husbands. Bloody brilliant - got it a couple of days ago and it is the only thing that has rung bells with me to the extent where I have not been able to put it down. Re your ex - I don't remember the details, but which 'agreement' are you referring to? Is this the financial agreement agreed during the divorce? Is it worth taking legal advice? I'm sorry you have to deal with this unadulterated tosspot. You sound like a wonderful, funny, kind and interesting person and you don't deserve the shit being flung at you.

Hi,

Well - how are you doing? I was away early part of the week, so missed post about sending a text. Doha?s advice is/was excellent about not contacting (took me ages to figure that out though ? I was still in email contact, re-hashing story of ?us? with my ex as late as Nov last year and then he flitted off to get married!). OW does deserve him and take relish in the fact that she has done you a favour to move on now with your DCs, IYSWIM? I knew ex?s OW/new wife?s details from day 1 and I have a cache of emails, texts, BBMs etc that he has sent me moaning about his regrets, how he wishes he could re-do the past and re-wind time/how if he had known I had really loved him, he would never have looked at any other woman/ how he has fd up etc etc, not a word of how actually she is his soulmate, they were just meant to be (got that verbally though)?..I was tempted early on to email her with this info and just in general to set the record straight about the wicked witch I am?.But, never did and glad I didn?t as would have just given then ammunition and, as time went on, I just didn?t want to be embroiled in their dramatic soap opera. However, like Dolly though, I sent ex missives (in fact loads of them!). Somehow I thought that I could vent in these emails to him and I assumed/have been assuming that he kept them private, but given Doha?s post, I know expect that he shared them with her, maybe had a good laugh or thought ?poor Dee34, she?d better hurry up and get over fantastic ex as she had her chance?. But, even now, I have to say I don?t care. Took me ages to get to this point, but I don?t care if I never see ex again, I don?t care what he tells his friends or family about me (and I used to worry about this, given his sudden ability to lie through his back teeth). I will care when new wife has the baby, but not because I want his baby (shudder), but more that I do want a baby (not with him) and I would dearly have loved DS to have a sibling from me and I will worry that he is getting a full-on family experience with his dad, but that?s it. I think you are still in the thick of it all, especially with having this heightened court battles and general pains and issues with your ex. Anyone would be the same ? certainly me. You are being awesome under such strained and shitty circumstances.

Is there a deadline for when the court related issues will come to a head/end? Just wondering if you could use this as marker for when you can look towards less engagement with your ex? Also, once everything is agreed, definitely go no contact. We can all help you??huge hugs.

The Runaway Husbands book is fantastic! Loved it ? in fact, got into a spiral a while back of reading ?break-up? type books. Very soothing and bang on the button for our situations I found.

Dolly - am feeling brighter today !! Sorry that your ex has been (or should that be, is continuing to be) a pain. Seems to me like just when you are detached, he wades in with some nonsense (having to propose selling his diving gear and now this)?..does he like a bit of drama? Can he legally do this and force a sale through, or could you object? As for him lecturing about how the child support is spent?..er, you are keeping a roof over your DS? head!!!!????!! Does he not realize this? You are not off having holidays in Hawaii or NY (oh yeah, no, sorry, that was him) and then pleading poverty w.r.t feeding/clothing/housing your son. And again, having a forced/fire sale will reduce your equity, no? So less money for you to take away and build a new home/future for you/your son. As he is not getting anything from the sale of the house I wonder if he would be so willing to do a forced sale if he stood to take away some equity to then put towards new pad/life with OW?? How has the house situation been left now? Hope it?s getting better.

Parsely - hope all is well with you????

Patience - huge thanks! Stull on a long-ish road to getting where I want/need to be, but inching my way there bit by bit and enjoying the moments??.I think it was a bit before this time last year that I started my thread and honestly a whole year ahead looked like a huge mountain to climb....probably more of a big hill now!

Not much to report here. Fingers crossed house will go through and DS and I can get settled (but not too settled??.still have an open mind in terms of possibly moving away from here should circumstances dictate such as new job/to be closer to family etc). Renting was a drama that I just need to escape and don?t think my nerves can do with renting somewhere else only to have landlord say they want to sell after 6 months?but on the bright side, got into a good school, which will still be on our way when leaving home.

Dx

Dee I'm getting on with ta, but sad still. I still think I did the right thing getting him to leave though. He is currently trying to screw me financially, and get some of my equity, that I had before I met him...he can force a sale of the house apparently, cos there is enough equity for us to be rehoused... Not suprised that he has got OW but its still a shame when you have loved someone who only really loves himself. When I got him to leave, I had to do it to protect my dd from EA as well as myself, but I loved and hated him at the same time. Seems like he never loved me back.
Glad you are movin on Dee!

Hi Laydeez

So. All a bit shit here but trying to see if there is anyway I can get the mortgage transfered to me.....BUT....a nice competition for you this weekend. My ex sister in law is getting married in November (second marriage) more of a party. I'm working for her at the moment and we are kind of good friends (albeit in a 2.0 way post divorce). Anyway she wants me to come to wedding, insisting on it really. Ex will be there (obviously) and he has asked if he can bring +1 (adulterous OW). Sister in Law yet to meet but said yes as long as she meets her first. So. I have a meeting with her in 6 months time. Outside of having 6 months to look GORGEOUS (or at least get nice dress - she is younger, prettier I think but not MUCH iyswim), lets have a contest to see what the fantasy passive aggressive way of greeting her would be (childish? moi?). Of course on the night I shall be icily charming and beyond reproach

So my starters for 10 are:-

'Gosh its so nice to finally put a name to your character'
'Gosh, you are everything I imagined you to be'
'Gosh its so brave of you to come along. I hope you don't feel awkward, can I get you a drink?'

I know you must have better.....

No.2 is just plain evil that one will trouble her as it could mean anything!

I like no 3, but will give it some thought...too good an opportunity to pass up tho'...

Have lurked on this thread from the start in both horror and admiration.

Wow Dolly, I could see a whole thread on this topic.

Think No 2 is great as it would be the easiest to deliver with a false cold smile as you look her up and down.
You also need to borrow/hire a gorgeous Colin Firth lookalike (substitute fav fantasy man).
Anyone know such a shop?!

Yes, I like the whole "How do you do?.....Gosh, you're just as I expected". Although we have to think of a suitable answer if he or she asks you what you mean by that.

I hope you are all ok ladies. I am pingponging mainly between numb and glumb at the moment, which I regard as a preferable state to all out decimation. Fuckface is coming over this weekend to see the children. Bringing his dad with him (again - he is incapable of existing on his own without another adult human there to validate his existence). He has agreed that he will not introduce the girlfriend to the children until christmas but I am not even happy about that (although my friends and solicitor imply I'm being unreasonable). But why should someone like her, who was complicit in breaking up my children's family unit, get to play happy families over the festive period? It sucks. Tell me how to move on.

I really hope you can get the mortgage transferred Dolly. It would be a huge relief for you I know.

xxx

Just for sheer devilment I've looked up a flight to oz - about £1k with singapore airlines. A reasonable step though, just to think about something in the future. And I've always liked australia, I have a soft spot for it. Have been there twice and each time after a long stint in asia, and what with the language and the copiousness of chips and pies it almost felt like coming home.

Hey All

Thanks for your input. Of course in 'real life' I will no doubt be less brave and just stick to hello. I of course have 6 months to obsess think about it but currently believe if they are there when I arrive I will walk straight over - to cut out awkward look - and say hello I'm Sue I hope you enjoy the weddding and then walk away - I'm not going to say its nice to meet her or anything like that as it won't be. To be honest I don't think I will be that bothered about seeing HER or her with my former husband but I will be bothered about seeing her with my son. I believe they have a nice relationship which of course is preferable for my son that the alternative BUT going to be like having my heart yanked out through my mouth to see it.

Although WELL that does bring me onto your current dilemma. I think that unfortunately (and if you look back at Dee's thread from early on) it is thought 'unreasonable' if you don't allow it and gives grounds for former partners / family to continue to paint picture of hideous former wife being vindictive, not moving on blah blah fucking blah. Now I don't personally agree with this and do share your views but I would say that I think in both myself and Dee's case THINKING about the meeting was worst. When they did meet it was hard but kind of OK.....that said I'm not looking forward to 'seeing' it in action and I do have to swallow hard when my son comes back and tells me 'X lets me do this' and his current best 'X is prettier than you Mama and a bit younger. She wears more necklaces' hmmmmm...i guess i'm trying to say it can be sometimes worse if you build it up in your mind and least she is in diff country so the reality is she will never be in their lives that much. It is so horrid though darling. Good luck....and numb and glum is INDEED better than feeling anhialated lovey....its such early days its going to be up and down. I still am very much (not helped by horrid phone calls re house - we haven't really had occassion to speak much before this month for a while and its nice not to have to.

Lots of love for a lovely w/end. I have a child free one stretching ahead of me which finds me drifting around trying to find an anchor.....I know I will come to cherish as many people tell me 'my time off' but currently I HATE it xxxx

ooooh and VERY VERY VERY welcome for Mumsnet wine drinking off-site in Australia - anytime!! We would very definately be able to put the world to rights!!

thermalsocks - I love your colin firth look a like shop idea....I will look them up in the yellow pages ; )

dolly have you got a project you could be getting on with this weekend? I am painting, and also making a bead curtain. Paint colours, and bead curtain, ph would have hated! When my daughter is away, its nice for the first two days. The house gets tidy, and I get on with stuff, then I miss her like crazy!