Come here if you have a Micralite Twofold!

[ilovetosleep]

I am going to have to order unseen and have a few specific questions. I don't live in UK so won't be able to send it back very easily if we don't like it! DS1 is 30 months and will be used with a newborn. I hope someone can help!

1 - will the the second seat fit in the basket? Will it fit in with a DC on the buggy board?

2 - What footmuff fits the Micralite?

3 - Is it good off road - thinking mainly beaches, cobbles and tracks.

4 - Is it really that terrible at going up kerbs? We live in a town with few dropped kerbs and lots of shops with little steps up. Is this a dealbreaker (I hope not as we can't find anything else that fits the bill!

5 - Is the second seat totally upright or is there even just a slight tilt?

6 - The main seat doesn't seem to fully recline flat. Does it? And does this mean baby needs to be in carrycot until 6 months? I have bugaboo bee that we can use in interim if necessary but as it will be summer and that clearly doesn't go on the beach, it might be problematic. I'm fairly sure DS lay flat in his buggy for naps long after 6 months. More like 1 yr or even more.

7 - Does the main seat need to be removed to stick the car seat on? Or can the adaptors sit on top like on our bugaboo bee? If not is it a complicated manoeuvre?

What I really want to avoid (which seems impossible with other tandems) is loads of faffing about with seats on, off, adaptors, blah blah. Had 2 x bad experiences with sales assistants not knowing their way around a P&T navigator and making it all look so faffy and complicated.

I think thats all. I might be back with more! Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer some of my Qs.

Don't know, but cheekily hopping on board as that's one I'm considering too

I don't like the look of it. The main seat doesn't lay down enough for my liking. As you say they need to lay down much beyond 6 months if napping.

Do you think your eldest will use the pram at all for much longer?

What about the mountain buggy + one?

Or valco baby tri mode with toddler seat

I don't have the double but I do have the fastfold which I believe it is based on.
The recline is pretty lame really, but it does go over most terrain very easily.

Hmm. I was hoping for a more positive response!

I ruled out the mountain buggy for one reason or another but I can't remember what! Was it that you have to lift the bigger toddler out of the back seat? I'm very short and currently have SPD so that really put me off. But I'll definitely take another look. Also I think doesn't have recline in double mode? Do you have one, would you rate it? And how is the fold? And one more, is it very heavy?

My eldest won't use the second seat very often, but once or twice a week for the 1hr nursery walk, and for long day trips and holidays. We have 2 holidays lined up this summer and I think he'll need the rest breaks. He won't need to sleep in it as we usually make sure we're home for his nap and he won't be napping for many more months.

But the built in buggy board will get a lot of use. I'd looked at putting a buggy board on another tandem like P&T for example, but it makes pushing it very awkward and I think it will be used very frequently. Plus buggyboards don't work with P&T in lie flat baby mode.

I also LOVE the shopping bag that comes with the twofold. That would make supermarket shopping without the car a real possibility.

I don't have one but the baby goes in the back and lies flat, elder in front. You can swap around later when both sitting but by then your eldest will be 3 1/2 so prob more used as a single

Best is to look on mountain buggy website and they will have diagrams of how it works for you.

I think the mountain buggy scooter can be added to back also for later if of interest

The reason I never got a +one is once the baby no longer fits in the cocoon/lie flat section they then have to sit pretty much totally upright in the front seat. The toddler is then bolt upright in the rear seat. Unless you fiddle it like this. I also knew I would never use it as a single.. but in a different less urban scenario I suppose may have. You wouldn't hit the toddler lifting until the baby was sitting upright in front.

I agree about the micralite recline/lack of recline too. I'm not sure what else to suggest that hasn't already been mentioned. If they were available here I would have looked very closely at a valco, quad or other 4 wheel one personally, and toddler seat.

The tfk joggster twist might work, it being more like a single pram (using the multi x seat/carrycot thing) with add on seat. It folds with the buddyseat on, which is good for your desire for a lack of bits. The multi x has to come off but in forward facing seat/seat mode it folds in one.

Hmm loads of questions.

1. The second seat doesnt fit in the basket or the bag. I tried!
2. Footmuff - I would get a Micralite one. They always look super cosy.
3. Cobbles and tracks fine. Micralites are supposed to be good on the beach but I have never tried. I dont see why the Twofold would be any different. Mine has been through thick mud and survived.
4. Its not great going up kerbs at all.
5. The seat is pretty upright. If its for a napping child, then I wouldnt...
6. The baby needs to be in the carrycot to six months. After that the recline is fine for a baby to nap in. But its not flat.
7. The seat fabric needs removing to put the car seat or carrycot on. Yes its not a quick swap - takes a good few mins with a cup of tea to do.

I dont think its that faffy. The flick out board is bliss compared to a buggy board.

I loved my Twofold, but also my +One. Just watch the lack of wheelguards if you look at the Joggster Twist - but with an older child, you should be able to teach them to keep their hands in.

Ooh so you've owned both Tiggy?
I hope you don't mind me asking further Qs. Basically which would you go for in my position?

DS will be 2 months off turning 3 by the time we really start using it. He likes to walk but can only manage 20-30 mins. The nursery run is more like an hour so I suspect a seat would be required over the buggy board especially at the end of the day. We won't need him to nap in 2nd seat. (although I guess if we went for a third child with a smaller gap this might be an issue. But I don't think we can think that far ahead!)

When in newborn single mode I need it to be buggy board compatible too, for shorter outings and park etc. Is this the case with the mountain buggy? I know it's not possible with the P&T unless you upgrade and buy the carry cot too - the board doesn't stick out further than the cocoon. Obv I'd need to buy carry cot anyway with the micralite but I'd actually prefer baby to be in a cocoon.

The second seat on the Mountain buggy doesn't seem comfy at all to me. I don't want to go to all this effort and get a double only for him to refuse to get in as its too uncomfortable. Which is best in terms of offering baby chance to recline and sleep while toddler is in the back? taking into account comfort for both of them?

Also I'll be wearing a sling some of the time with baby but the whole thing of having to leave main seat at home if the carry cot is on, or if we go in the car and need to keep baby in car seat, means I'll be making the decision about who gets to sit before I leave the house each day. Because presumably neither of them gives the option of putting toddler in one seat while the carry cot is empty? Is there a way around this with the cocoon/toddler seat set-up with the mountain buggy?

Argh I just don't know what to do. I wish I could test drive.

Presumably mountain buggy is great off road/beach?

Last thing. When you say its terrible with kerbs, what do you mean. Does it just not manage them at all? Is it really heavy to tilt? Does it tip to the side? Is it at all possible or just tricky? I don't want to be half way across the road and then having to get a feisty 3 yr old out of his seat with cars flying past!

I suspect that whatever I choose I'm going to end up using the bugaboo bee +buggy board half the time anyway (if we're on road only) to allow me the greatest number of options!

Oh and I've never heard of the TFK, thats more research I need to do then!

I haven't been on for a while but just wondered if anyone could answer my last questions and also comment on the Oyster max for my criteria? Just to throw another one I to the mix...

You can't put a board onto the back of the MB +One if you have the seat laid flat for a newborn. TBH its so much easier to simply lift the child in and out of the back if need be than waddling like a duck around a board!

At what age are you considering the baby sleeping and the toddler being awake - after the first 6 months? I think both have pros and cons, but in both, the toddler would be in the rear with the baby at the front after 6 months. There is room for a decent recline on both but there is more separation between the children with the Twofold.
The MB is good on the beach.

Kerbs - I struggled to get the Twofold up them. I had to unload my rear passenger.

The Oyster Max would probably be better than both these options for your age gap apart from the off road option. The front seat of the Oyster Max is huge. After 6 months you really need to parent face the LO in the upper seat which does impinge on the older one, but being 3 years old by that stage, he should understand why, and be tall enough for the footrest to be out of his way. The Max is excellent with a board on the back too - no duck waddling!
The best pushchairs for a reclined baby and a sat upright toddler are really the two iCandy's TBH. There's enough room for the toddler in either seat with the baby reclined comfortably in the other seat.

Thanks for the reply Tiggywunkle.

There really is no perfect solution, is there!

what I really need is a single buggy that can be used as a double for the next 6m-1yr, for the odd day, and can take a buggy board right from the word go.

So the distance between seats is less of a concern I guess, but beach worthy is pretty important. Is Oyster Max not very good off road? Haven't really looked that closely tbh.

The iCandys to me seem huge and unnecessary for our situation, I haven't tried one but when I see them out and about (there are loads around here) I think they massive. And a bit bling! But looks aren't everything...

And also with the Icandys and Oyster too to some extent, I'm put off by all the faffing with folding. I really want as close to a one piece fold as I can get as we drive a lot too. Am used to a Bee, which I'd be happy to stick with and work around it being a single with board/sling combos, but since we moved location off road and sturdiness is pretty critical.

I think its still between MB and Micralite. its annoying that bugy board won't work with baby sleeping but will it work with main seat semi upright? I guess buggy boards only really work with carry cots in the baby's early days?

How off road does it need to be? I keep looking at the zezu multi tandem mainly because of it being a genuine single with an add on toddler seat. The built in buggyboard also looks really cool. Doesn't fold in one though.

There really genuinely isn't a perfect solution with doubles, adaptability is needed but with adaptability comes faffy bits and pieces, folding in a million bits or being massive folded etc. I think it must be nigh on impossible to design something with the features people want - parent facing, add on seats, different seating options etc. that folds in one piece.

By off road I mainly mean daily walks on the beach - sometimes sandy beaches and sometimes pebbly slipways and sometimes quite bumpy cliff paths. And cobbles - our high street is entirely cobbled. So not climbing mountains.

With my first, when we came here on holidays, I used to carry DS in his bugaboo bee, right down from the car park to where the sand was wet and firm by the sea and then walk him along there! Won't be doing that with a toddler in tow. Also might explain why its chassis is totally out of kilter and it feels like it might fall apart any day! I can use a sling fairly often but then I'd have to carry all the beach stuff and I'd have nowhere for baby to sleep.

Kerbs are obviously an issue with the Twofold. Lots of shops here have a step up. On the other hand, lots of the country roads where we live have no pavements at all and there are plenty of idiots driving cars way too big for them so width is also an issue. And pavements generally are narrow.

I'm actually drawn back to the p&T although lack of buggy board function is an issue with that one. I know lots of people who take theirs on the beach here and who use it as a single. You also see cameleons on the sandier beaches and baby joggers. Basically because thats all you can buy here i guess and people prefer to buy in the flesh. The baby jogger select is way to big for us though.

In fact loads people carry their baby down to the beach in a car seat but I'm a bit against car seats for long stretches and I don't have the strength, and I have the toddler to keep tabs on too. A beach worth buggy would be a big help.

Can you live with a second seat instead of a board? As tiggy said above if the p and t or +one meets your other needs then could that be the compromise? Wherever you are it sounds lovely, I think you definitely need air tyres and generally robust as a priority though! Did you look into the tfk? In an overall sense it likely will just probably be more awkward and difficult doing the things you normally do with a toddler and a baby, the right pushchair should help but it's unlikely one pushchair will do everything you want imo. I might be tempted to consider sling and pop up travel cot for the beach, especially if I was going alone with two small children.. but i'm possibly kind of scarred by ds and dd1 tending towards being on the outside edge of out of control in beach situations and plenty of other outdoorsy situations :-/

You're right about needing it to be robust. I also need it to come in and out of car boot on a daily basis, so I think I'll start by looking at which is lighter, the navigator or the +one!

DO you know if either of these are buggy board compatible once the baby is in the front seat and more upright? I know it won't work with the baby lying flat in the cocoon, but not sure about once in the proper seat.

And one last Q! I think I remember reading that with the new navigator, the baby can stay asleep in the back seat cocoon while the toddler gets up and walks, without the whole thing tipping backwards. Is this possible with the Mountain buggy? Because what I really need is a buggy that DS can hop in and out of without me having to move baby/worry about it toppling over. Which is why I thought he'd maybe be better in a second seat rather than up top?

I agree about that, toddlers being better in the second seat in terms of in and out.. but it's hard to find that set up. Esp as a folds in one package. The tfk is the closest I can think of that could offer you that set up whilst still being robust enough. You only need to remove the multi x seat to fold, the toddler seat folds in situ.

As far as I know the +one should be no problem with a buggyboard, the navigator I'm really not sure on, definitely recall reading the lascal site doesn't list it at all. I'm trying to find a good pic of the back of it to get an idea. Hmmm.

Thanks everyone so much for all your advice. I am looking into the TFK but I think we're going to head back to square one and go for a Navigator. I feel more confident buying something that I've at least seen in the flesh once or twice, plus it seems a bit lighter than most off road tandems (apart from obv the micralite but that won't be our solution unfortunately.)

Lack of buggy board is going to have to be our main compromise, but DS is in training with his scooter so fingers crossed he'll be good enough in a few months to scoot alongside me if he doesn't want to sit. He's pretty terrible at it right now, but I see so many little ones on them it can't be that long before he gets used to it!

I have the twofold. Here are my thoughts

1. Extra seat. I wear on my back like a rucksack. This isn't glam but does the job.
2. The extra seat is quite upright
3. Kerbs a nightmare. If using the buggy board, you will have to ask your child to spread their legs so you can put your foot on the board to lever up.
4. Footmuff. I use the kaiser thermal igloo
5. We live on the coast and the buggy isn't that great on a shingle beach.
6. Recline on main seat is a disappointment. My 10 month old has to be knackered to nod off. If I'm going out all day the micralite isn't an option, I have to take my Maclaren which has a better recline.