Getting a charge removed from a property title

[HouseMoveRound2]

Having a hellish time helping in laws with a property sale.

their property borders a pub, due to a mapping mistake and insufficient quality on title deeds to rectify it, the pub next door are signing over some land via TP1 route. However they have just I formed they’ve discovered they have a charge on their title, so they are trying to get it removed from the teeeeeeeny tiny slip of land that is being signed over.

anyone have any experience of this and can provide any thoughts of timelines to get the charge removed? We have the TP1 literally ready to go, this is just a last min headache I could do without 🫠🫠

We had an issue with a charge against the house Weve just bought. In our case, it was more complicated because the charge had only been applied a couple of months earlier and was still pending. Because formal registration hadn't been completed, our solicitor expected that it would take a long time to remove. We were under huge pressure from our buyers to complete by 14 August when their mortgage offer was due to expire, and we only saw our new house in mid July. Our solicitor and the vendors’ solicitor expedited the registration and removal of the charge with the land registry and it took three weeks to resolve it. It took a huge amount of work to get it sorted out, but we were cash buyers and said we would pull out of the purchase if they didn’t meet our buyers’ timescale, so it shows it csn be resolved if everyone is willing to pull their fingers out.

Have you called the land registry?They are usually very helpful.

That’s good to hear @Growlybear83 did you need to wait for LR to actually remove the charge before completing, or were you able to complete once the application had been lodged?

@SharkEnthusiast its tricky because it’s not our land, it’s the pubs land so we can’t actually do anything to move the land registry process along. We just have to wait for the solicitors of the pub to do what needs to be done, and as they dont actually have any reason to hurry I’m slightly panicking this could drag on 🥴🥴

The charge was registered and removed in the three week period. Everyone was really helpful but I suppose we were in a better position than your in laws because our vendors knew they would lose the sale if they didn’t do everything they could to resolve it quickly. But our solicitor told us at the start that it was much more difficult in our case because registration of the charge was pending, and it would have been much easier and quicker to remove if it had already been registered formally, so hopefully it shouldn’t take too long for your in laws if the pub will Co-operate.

actually it’s the bank that’s going to be the biggest hold up in this scenario. The land registry cannot remove the charge without discharge paperwork from the lender. Only then can they process the application to remove it. Banks are glacial at the moment.

Yes that’s part of my concern @scaredysquiggle altgough I’m not sure if it’s a lender charge or a corporate charge, difficult to know as it’s a pub and they are owned by a very large parent company.

hoping today brings some more news from our conveyancer to help start understanding what this means to our timelines :(

You can ask your conveyancer for details of the charge, so that you better understand the situation.
Once the application to remove the charge has been submitted to the Land Registry, the TP1 can be completed and that application submitted also - this can literally be done the same day.
Your conveyancer (or any conveyancer) can request that the applications be expedited on the grounds that they are holding up the sale. Land registry will then review the applications in 10 working days, often sooner. That doesn't mean they will complete them in that time, but if everything is in order with the applications then they should be able to complete them without raising any questions.

Thanks @FebruaryUsername that is what I was hoping for, the people buying from my in-laws are happy to complete when TP1 is lodged (with an expedited application) so that’s really reassuring to hear the charge removal can be lodged at the same time.

Just got to chase the solicitors/conveyancers to make sure they are pushing it to get the agreement from whoever the charge holder is. And based on my current 17 weeks experiencing of conveyancing, this may be what causes the delay 😫😫

@HouseMoveRound2 that's great, some buyers (and their lenders) would insist on the applications being completed before they'll complete on the purchase.
If the charge is a lenders charge (mortgage), which is to remain on the pub's title but be removed from the slither of land, then it could be a couple of weeks for the lender to approve this as they'll refer it to their underwriters and valuers. If it's an old mortgage which has been repaid but not removed from the title, it'll be quicker as the lender can submit their application to remove the charge within a couple of days.

@FebruaryUsername yes I was relieved when their conveyor said they could complete after lodging TP1, although that was before this charge came to light, so they might have a different view now it’s more complex. But i live in hope!

Thanks for taking the time to share your advice, it’s much appreciated :)

The pub’s solicitor will lodge what’s called a DS3 at the Land Registry to remove part of the charge over that land. If it’s a current charge, the lender will likely require a valuation to ensure that the value of the remaining land covers the security. That can then be expedited at the Land Registry, which can take a week / ten days.

The main problem you’ll have is that neither the pub nor the bank are parties to the ongoing transaction, so neither have any real incentive to hurry this along, so you’ll likely be towards the bottom of their solicitor’s priority list (sorry!).

Your conveyancer can chase this regularly but ultimately you’re in the hands of a third party, which makes a time frame difficult to estimate. They might be incredibly efficient, in which case it can be done relatively quickly, or they might not. I’d just suggest keeping dialogue open with the other parties in the transaction and ensuring your conveyancer is regularly asking for updates from theirs.

Thank you @Nottodaythankyou123 its good to hear from someone else who also has some knowledge around this.

We are chasing regularly, but you are absolutely spot on in that there doesn’t seem to be much responsiveness from the pub’s legal team as they have no skin in the timeframe-game! And obviously we won’t even have a line of communication to the lender so that’s an issue that is totally outside of our sphere of control :(

It becomes a bit of a mindset game tbh, you either accept that it may well end up taking a while (and hopefully it’s less than you expect) or you withdraw. My personal and professional experience is that stressing, whilst understandable, isn’t going to change the outcome here!

Hopefully, with weekly (or twice weekly) reminders, they'll deal with it fairly quickly, but just brace yourself that it may take a while longer than you’d originally anticipated.